|
Interview with Kim |
|
Pivoine |
I
would like you to tell me about your life during the Khmer
Rouge regime. How did you suffer? Please tell me what you
remember. |
|
Kim |
I
worked very hard. |
|
Pivoine |
Please tell me step by step what you remember. |
|
Kim |
In
the Khmer Rouge regime, Hoy arrested me and punished me.
After the Khmer Rouge collapsed, I ran away. They tried to
shoot me. I worked very hard and suffered greatly.
|
|
Pivoine |
I
want to ask you, what is your name? |
|
Kim |
Kim. |
|
Pivoine |
Kim
what? |
|
Kim |
Srun Kim. |
|
Pivoine |
How
old are you now? |
|
Kim |
I’m
36 years old. |
|
Pivoine |
Are
you married? |
|
Kim |
Yes |
|
Pivoine |
What is your wife’s name? |
|
Kim |
My
wife is Mach. |
|
Pivoine |
Where is she now? |
|
Kim |
She
has gone to the forest. |
|
Pivoine |
How
many children do you have? |
|
Kim |
One
boy and one girl. |
|
Pivoine |
How
did you join the revolution? |
|
Kim |
I
was young. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you work in your village or were you sent to another place? |
|
Kim |
I
worked in my village. |
|
Pivoine |
What did you do before the Khmer Rouge regime? |
|
Kim |
I
looked after cows and farmed. |
|
Pivoine |
What did you do during the Khmer Rouge regime? |
|
Kim |
I
worked at a security center. |
|
Pivoine |
You
told me someone tried to shoot you. |
|
Kim |
When I worked in the center, someone punished me. I was
still young; I don’t know much. I only remember a little
bit. |
|
Pivoine |
Do
you remember when the photograph was taken? |
|
Kim |
It
was taken during the Khmer Rouge regime, but I don’t
remember where. |
|
Pivoine |
What did you do during the regime? |
|
Kim |
I
carried earth and worked in a cooperative. |
|
Pivoine |
Where? |
|
Kim |
At
Prek Samraong village. |
|
Pivoine |
What is the subdistrict? |
|
Kim |
Koh
Thom subdistrict. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you live with your parents during the regime? |
|
Kim |
No,
I lived apart from them. |
|
Pivoine |
In
addition to your work in the village, what else did you do? |
|
Kim |
I
was not able to do any other kinds of work because I had
problems with my hand. |
|
Pivoine |
When did you have the problem with your hand? |
|
Kim |
Since I was young. |
|
Kaorn |
Before the Khmer Rouge regime, my house was destroyed by
fire and I ran to Phnom Phen. I had only the clothes on my
back. I couldn’t bring any property. Because my house was
destroyed, my children only also had what they were wearing.
And then I came back to live in Prek Samraong village.
Someone there gave me a house. |
|
Pivoine |
I
want you to tell me about the time someone shot you and put
your head in the water. |
|
Kim
|
Oh,
this happened in 1979. The Khmer Rouge took me far away from
home. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did they take you? |
|
Kim
|
[answer not clear] |
|
Pivoine |
When did they take you? |
|
Kim
|
When the Vietnamese invaded. They took me far away. |
|
Kaorn |
When the Vietnamese came to my village, the Khmer Rouge took
my family. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
the Khmer Rouge shoot you? |
|
Kim |
The
Khmer Rouge took me when they fought with the Vietnamese.
Some of the people died during the fighting. |
|
Pivoine |
After that, where did you go? |
|
Kim |
I
went to Kandal Steung district. |
|
Kaorn |
The
Khmer Rouge told me that if I ran away, don’t turn back
because I will die in a second. |
|
Pivoine |
Please tell me your story step by step because Kim was still
young and doesn’t remember well. |
|
Interview with Kaorn |
|
Kaorn |
My
son was young. He doesn’t remember. |
|
Pivoine |
So
please tell me because you are his mother. |
|
Kaorn |
Oh,
I worked very hard and suffered a lot. I ran away from my
village. I worked very hard on the farm. When I came back to
my house, there wasn’t enough food to eat. My son
experienced the same thing. Someone blamed me. They said I
acted like a dog. So, I took my son and we ran away to find
food to eat. I stole some rice and put it in my skirt for my
son. I did this every day. If I hadn’t done this, my son
would have died. |
|
Pivoine |
So,
I want to ask some more questions. I still don’t understand.
I’m sorry, what’s your name? |
|
Kaorn |
Try
Kaorn. |
|
Pivoine |
What is your husband’s name? |
|
Kaorn |
Srun Lork. |
|
Pivoine |
How
old are you? |
|
Kaorn |
69 |
|
Pivoine |
What is your husband’s age? |
|
Kaorn |
He
is 76. |
|
Pivoine |
What work did you do and what was your life like before the
regime? |
|
Kaorn |
I
worked day and night. There was no time to relax. |
|
Pivoine |
I
want to ask you about the Lon Nol regime. |
|
Kaorn |
Yes, in the Lon Nol regime, I worked on the farm, then my
house was destroyed by fire. |
|
Pivoine |
When was your house destroyed? |
|
Kaorn |
During the Khmer Rouge regime. |
|
Pivoine |
Which regime? |
|
Kaorn |
Khmer Rouge. [actually, it appears to be around 1972] I had
only the clothes on my body. When I took the bus, I had only
those clothes. Everything else was destroyed by the fire.
The fire was caused by gasoline. |
|
Pivoine |
Who
burned your house? |
|
Kaorn |
The
Vietnamese. Their troops came to my village They came in a
ship along the Mekong River. They burned my house down using
gasoline. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
they burn your house down? |
|
Kaorn |
No,
my house was in Prey Ke village in Kah Thom B subdistrict,
Kah Thom district. It was far from my present house. |
|
Pivoine |
How
far is it? |
|
Kaorn |
It
is nearly 1 kilometer. |
|
Pivoine |
After your house was destroyed, where did you go? |
|
Kaorn |
My
brother in law called me to meet him in Phnom Phen near Bung
Korng Market. My husband didn’t know how to find any work
there. He worked as a cyclo [pedicab] driver so he could
earn money to support my son and me. Then he decided to live
in this village. |
|
Pivoine |
In
addition to driving a cyclo, what did he do? |
|
Kaorn |
He
worked only as a cyclo driver with his brother. |
|
Pivoine |
Why
did he want to live in this village? |
|
Kaorn |
My
husband said it’s not easy to live in Phnom Penh. I wanted
to live in Battambang province, but my husband disagreed. He
wanted to live in this village because there was a lot of
fruit to eat, like mangos, and they were easy to find. |
|
Pivoine |
When did you come back to live at this village? |
|
Kaorn |
We
left the village in 1972 and came to Prey Pe in 1974. |
|
Pivoine |
When you came back to your village, what was the situation
like? |
|
Kaorn |
When the bombs were dropping from the airplanes, we ran to a
small shelter on the farm. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
they drop the bombs after you returned to your village? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes, I was very scared and I nearly died. When I came back
to my village, I asked someone to give me a house at Prey
Saom village. But after six months in Prey Saom, the Khmer
Rouge sent me to Por Tunle prison. It was across the river
from my village. [It appears that they were sent to prison
early in the regime, around 1975] |
|
Lork |
I
was also sent to Por Tunle and they wanted to kill me there. |
|
Kaorn |
I
was sent to Por Tunle because they wanted to kill me. But my
son Song came to help me. He told me that if someone asked
me to run to Vietnam, please don’t go. |
|
Pivoine |
Why
were you sent to Por Tunle? |
|
Kaorn |
I
didn’t do anything wrong, but they wanted to kill me. |
|
|
|
|
Pivoine |
When you were sent to Por Tunle, did Song join the
revolution? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes, he joined the revolution in 1972. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he go to Phnom Penh with you? |
|
Kaorn |
He
went with me. Then my relatives in Phnom Penh asked him to
go with them to Battambong province to live. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
your relatives want him to live with them? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes, but my mother in law didn’t agree because she was
scared that the family would be separated. She wanted all of
us to live together. My relatives in Phnom Penh wanted him
[Song] to look after their house and then would provide some
money for him to study. But I took him to my village with
me. In 1972, someone took my son to join the revolution
while we were having lunch at home. I told them, please let
him finish lunch because he hasn’t eaten yet. They said they
would have a lot of food for him after he joined the
revolution, |
|
Pivoine |
Who
recruited your son? |
|
Kaorn |
She
lived at Memut in Kampong Cham province. |
|
Pivoine |
What was her name? |
|
Kaorn |
Her
name was Chiv Ly. |
|
Pivoine |
How
did she recruit him? |
|
Kaorn |
She
worked as a chief. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
she work as a village chief? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes, in my village. She also controlled my village. I asked
her where she wanted to take my son. She replied “Don’t ask
me like that.” Then I cried. I didn’t know where she had
taken my son or if she had taken him out to kill him. Two
years later, someone told me “Your son is very thin.” My son
was living in Prek Sdei subdistrict. He was also very sick.
My husband and I went to visit him; we asked if he could
live with us, but the Khmer Rouge wouldn’t allow it. My
husband then took our son and ran back to our house. We had
no money for medicine or food for him. One day, when we went
to work on the farm, someone came and stole our son away.
When I returned from the farm, I called my son, but he
didn’t answer. A few years later, someone told me that my
son was living in Leuk Dek subdistrict. I wanted to see him,
but I couldn’t. |
|
Pivoine |
I
want to ask you, when did your husband take your son home? |
|
Kaorn |
I
forgot. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did he take him from? |
|
Kaorn |
Prek Sdei subdistrict. He was in training at that time [as a
combatant]. He was sick. He stayed at home. I had no money
to buy medicine or food for him. But I did bring him some
sugar. After he ate it, he felt better. And he also had
medicine because I was able to buy it with the little bit of
gold I had. |
|
Pivoine |
I
would like to ask you how many days did your son live with
you before he went back to the Khmer Rouge? |
|
Kaorn |
About half a month; he was better after that. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did he work after he returned to the battlefield? |
|
Kaorn |
at
Prek Sdei subdistrict. But I don’t know the exact location.
About 15 days after the revolution began in 1975, he came
back home again. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
your son return home again? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes. And then he told me if someone asked for another of my
sons to join the revolution, don’t allow it. |
|
Pivoine |
How
many days did he come home for? |
|
Kaorn |
Only one night, then he returned to the field. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he bring anything with him to your home? |
|
Kaorn |
He
brought a lighter to trade for a chicken. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he tell you anything? |
|
Kaorn |
No,
nothing. |
|
Pivoine |
In
addition to the lighter, did he bring you anything? |
|
Kaorn |
No.
Nothing. |
|
Pivoine |
When was this photograph taken? |
|
Kaorn |
It
was taken after the liberation in 1975. |
|
Pivoine |
Was
it taken before or after the liberation? |
|
Kaorn |
I
don’t know the year, but I do know it was during the Khmer
Rouge regime. |
|
Pivoine |
Was
it taken when your son was visiting you at home? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes. I asked him [Song] about the photographs he had brought
with him. His leader had wanted him to bring photographs to
his parents. |
|
Pivoine |
So,
was the photograph taken when your son was visiting you? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes. |
|
Sinith |
When did he give you the pictures? |
|
Kaorn |
I
don’t know. After 1975. Maybe during the Khmer Rouge regime.
My son told me he would take the photograph so he could have
it as a souvenir when he left home and when he missed us. |
|
Pivoine |
How
many times did he visit home? |
|
Kaorn |
The
first time was when my husband brought him home and the
second was before 1975. The third time was when he brought
the photographs. The fourth time, he came back again. It was
before 1979. After that, he disappeared. |
|
Sinith |
How
many days after the revolution did your son bring you the
photograph? |
|
Kaorn |
After the Khmer Rouge took control of Phnom Penh and we came
to visit home for the second time. The first time he took my
photograph with him, and the second time was when he brought
me a photograph. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you ask him what his life was like during the regime? |
|
Kaorn |
No,
he didn’t tell me anything. |
|
Pivoine |
How
many photographs did your son take [both the son and a
neighbor had cameras] |
|
Kaorn |
Many. The villagers also took them. [Looking at the
photograph of Srun Song at about age 12, which was taken at
Tuol Sleng school in Phnom Penh, when Song was in grade 7] |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you keep this photograph? |
|
Kaorn |
My
mother kept it. |
|
Pivoine |
Do
you remember where these photographs were taken? [shows old
family photos] |
|
Kaorn |
They were taken in front of my house in Prek Samraong
village. |
|
Pivoine |
Can
you tell me about your husband’s photograph? Where was it
taken? |
|
Kaorn |
It
was taken in front of my house on the same day. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
your son [Song] tell you why he took your photograph? |
|
Kaorn |
No;
he just said he took it for memory for when he no longer
lived at home. |
|
Pivoine |
What else did he say? |
|
Kaorn |
Nothing. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he tell you where he worked? |
|
Kaorn |
No;
he was scared that someone would arrest him and take him to
prison. |
|
Pivoine |
When did he come back to your village? |
|
Kaorn |
Before the revolution when our house was destroyed. [4
times; the same answer as before] |
|
Pivoine |
When did he bring you the photographs? |
|
Kaorn |
On
his second visit. The first time when he came, he was very
skinny. The second time he gave me the photographs. |
|
Pivoine |
When was the second visit? Before or after 1975 |
|
Kaorn |
After 1975. It was after we started eating communal meals in
our village. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he tell you anything about the photographs? |
|
Kaorn |
No,
I didn’t ask him about them. We only met for a very short
time because I had to go to work. I wasn’t able to talk to
him. |
|
Pivoine |
When did he visit home the last time? |
|
Kaorn |
Before 1979. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he tell you anything then? |
|
Kaorn |
No.
We weren’t able to meet. When I ran to meet him, he went
out. |
|
Pivoine |
When Song came to visit home, what clothes was he wearing? |
|
Kaorn |
Black clothes. |
|
Pivoine |
Besides the camera, did he bring you anything? |
|
Kaorn |
Only the camera. |
|
Pivoine |
How
many people came with him? |
|
Kaorn |
He
came alone. After he left, someone came to ask me about the
biography of Srien. They asked if Srien had a brother [Song]
who worked in Phnom Penh as a photographer. I told them that
Srien didn’t work in a prison. I told them that Srien worked
in an office in Phnom Penh. Its chief was Leng. Later
someone arrested Leng. After that Srien was also arrested
and taken to prison because he worked with Leng. |
|
Pivoine |
Which prison? |
|
Kaorn |
Prey Sar prison. Song was a photographer at Prey Sar, so he
visited Srien there. When Srien saw Song at the prison, he
called out to his brother. Song told the guard at the prison
to look after his brother. But the guard didn’t believe that
they were brothers because Song had dark skin and Srien had
light skin. Song told them that he looked like me and Srien
like his father, so they finally believed him. Before Srien
met Song, he only had three cans of porridge to eat per day.
But after they met, he was given more rice. Then Srien’s
conditions changed. Before he was shackled inside the
prison, but then he was sent out to cut sugar cane.
|
|
Pivoine |
Where were you living when your son was in prison? |
|
Kaorn |
I
was at Prek Samraong. I stayed there until 1979.
|
|
Pivoine |
I
would like to ask you about Song. How did he come home? |
|
Kaorn |
He
came by bicycle. He borrowed it to visit home. |
|
Pivoine |
What kind of work did you do after 1975? |
|
Kaorn |
I
worked in the rice fields. I worked on the water wheel and
transplanted rice. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you work in the village? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes, but far from home. They made me work on the water wheel
with three other people. I also transplanted rice. And I
worked on the farm growing vegetables like corn and soy. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you take rice or vegetables to eat? |
|
Kaorn |
No,
I was too scared. If someone stole even one ear of corn to
eat, they would be killed. My daughter came to live with me,
but she had no food to eat. But the daughter of the village
chief had a lot of food to eat. I had a lot of pity for my
daughter because she didn’t have enough food to eat. Someone
accused me of stealing corn for my daughter. I denied it.
But at that time I worked in a chicken coop and I saw some
feed corn. I also worked cooking in the kitchen, so I took
one ear of corn and cooked it. Then I mixed it with some
rice. I gave it to other people, not my daughter. Someone
accused me of stealing. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you do this work until 1979? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes. |
|
Pivoine |
What about your husband? |
|
Kaorn |
He
looked after the cows. We worked far away from each other,
but we met at night. |
|
Pivoine |
After 1979, did you see any Vietnamese in your village? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes. |
|
Pivoine |
When did they leave your village? |
|
Kaorn |
They were only at my village for a short time before they
left. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did they go? |
|
Kaorn |
They went to Phnom Penh. |
|
Pivoine |
Were the villagers happy to see the Vietnamese when they
came? |
|
Kaorn |
I
wasn’t scared because they said they would help the people.
But while the Vietnamese were in my village, the Khmer Rouge
came and took me from my home. They kept me in the village.
Then I had a problem with my hand. So the Vietnamese enemy
came and took me to the hospital. |
|
Pivoine |
After the regime collapsed, did you ever go to Phnom Penh to
see your son Song? |
|
Kaorn |
No.
I didn’t know where to find him. |
|
Pivoine |
Had
you ever asked anyone about your son? |
|
Kaorn |
No.
After 1979, someone told me he had met my son and asked him
to come back to our village with him. But Song said he was
afraid of the Vietnamese and wouldn’t come. |
|
Pivoine |
Who
told you that? |
|
Kaorn |
Someone who also lived in this village; he has gone now and
I have forgotten his name. |
|
Pivoine |
What did he tell you? |
|
Kaorn |
He
just told me what I said to you. Then Song told him he was
afraid of the Vietnamese enemy and would not come with him.
But he said he would come back once the Vietnamese had left.
I have been waiting for him ever since. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did this man meet your son? |
|
Kaorn |
They met in the mountains; Song was riding a horse. He had
two friends with him. |
|
Pheakh |
When the Khmer Rouge collapsed, did you see any combatants
come back to this village? |
|
Kaorn |
No. |
|
Pheakh |
I
want to ask you about the combatants in your village who
joined the revolution like your son. |
|
Kaorn |
Ok |
|
Pheakh |
Did
they come back home? |
|
Kaorn |
The
village and group chiefs came back home. |
|
Pheakh |
Do
you know how many people joined the revolution in your
village? |
|
Kaorn |
All
of them joined, but some of them disappeared. |
|
Pheakh |
After 1979, did they come back home to visit? |
|
Kaorn |
No,
they never came back home. |
|
Pivoine |
Do
you remember who controlled you village during the regime? |
|
Kaorn |
Sam, the village chief and Sruch. Both of them disappeared.
Someone said they died. Both of them had good food to eat.
|
|
Pivoine |
I
would like to ask you about the time you were sent to Por
Tunle Prison. |
|
Kaorn |
I
don’t know the year; I forgot. |
|
Pivoine |
Was
it before or after Song visited home? |
|
Kaorn |
Before. I nearly died. The prison was near my village. I
went there for one week. And then someone sent a letter to
the prison officials. They said I came from a good family
and I should be released. |
|
Pivoine |
Who
sent this letter saying you were a good person from a good
family? |
|
Kaorn |
I
don’t know. |
|
Pivoine |
Who
else went to Por Tunle with you? |
|
Kaorn |
My
three sons and one daughter also went to the prison. My
mother also went. [This must have been early in the regime] |
|
Pivoine |
Have you ever told your story to your children or any of the
villagers? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes. I told them they are luckier than me. I worked very
hard during the regime. I woke up very early in the morning
and went to work. Now the times are easy. Children have food
to eat and can go to school. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
they believe you? |
|
Kaorn |
Yes, they did because I wanted them to know my story. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
your grandchildren believe you? |
|
Kaorn |
Some of them did not. But I still told them about my hard
work during the regime. |
|
Pivoine |
Do
you think it is important for your grandchildren and
villagers to be told your story? |
|
Kaorn |
I
just want them to know my story. I don’t know if it’s
important or not. |
|
Pivoine |
Have you ever told your story to your children, Kim? |
|
Kim
|
Yes; I told them about my hard work during the regime. But
they don’t believe me. They also know some stories about the
regime from the TV. I also told them about people who stole
food to eat and were killed. |
|
Pivoine |
Do
you think it is important for you to tell your story to your
children? |
|
Kim
|
Yes
because they some of them don’t believe it and they don’t
know about the regime. |
|
Kaorn |
I
suffered a lot. I stole some rice every day. I wasn’t happy
doing this. I did it for my daughter. I wanted her to stay
alive. One time the village chief held my head under water
in the river after they accused me of stealing a chicken
egg. And when my mother saw this, she screamed. Then they
released me. After that, I tried to learn how to swim
because I was afraid they would do it to me again. |
|
Pivoine |
Many thanks to you for telling us your story. |
|
Interview with Srein |
|
Pivoine |
What is your name? |
|
Srien |
Srun Srien |
|
Pivoine |
How
old are you? |
|
Srien |
49 |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you have your photograph taken? |
|
Srien |
No. |
|
Pivoine |
Can
you tell me your story during the Khmer Rouge regime and the
time you met Song at Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
He
was in Phnom Penh and I was at Prey Sar. He was a
photographer. |
|
Pivoine |
What kind of photographer? |
|
Srien |
He
photographed prisoners. |
|
Pivoine |
Can
you tell me your story after 1975? |
|
Srien |
After 1975, I was at Chak An Re district in Phnom Penh. I
was in a children’s unit. I worked as a combatant and I had
a gun. Between 1975 and 1976, I asked to live with Leng.
|
|
Pivoine |
Where is Leng? |
|
Srien |
He
lived in Chak An Re Le [a different district in Phnom Penh].
So the Khmer Rouge knew that I was connected to Leng and
they sent me to Office 8 near the airport. After that, they
sent me to Prey Sar. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you know why they sent you to Office 8? |
|
Srien |
They accused me of being connected with Leng and that I had
tried to run away from the battlefield. So they arrested me.
After keeping me in once place, they sent me to Prey Sar. |
|
Pivoine |
Why
did they send you to Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
The
reason is that they accused me of being an enemy from the
Lon Nol regime. When I was a Prey Sar, they kept me
handcuffed and shackled my legs the entire time. They also
hit my head with an axe. |
|
Pivoine |
How
long were in Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
Until the Vietnamese came [more than three years]. |
|
Pivoine |
When did you meet your brother Song? |
|
Srien |
I
met him after 1975. We were both at Prey Sar until 1977. He
worked there as a photographer. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did you meet him? |
|
Srien |
I
saw him riding by on a bicycle to take pictures of the
prisoners. I was also a prisoner. |
|
Pivoine |
I
want to ask you when did you first meet your brother? |
|
Srien |
In
1976. |
|
Pivoine |
Where? |
|
Srien |
On
the road to Tuol Sleng. The road was called Mai Pleung. |
|
Pivoine |
What did Song do? |
|
Srien |
He
was a photographer and filmmaker. |
|
Pivoine |
Could he make films? |
|
Srien |
Yes; he took me to a theatre and showed me a film. |
|
Pivoine |
In
which province did Song work? |
|
Srien |
At
Phnom Penh. |
|
Pivoine |
But
in an earlier interview, you told me that you met at Prey
Sar, and then they sent you [Srien] to S-21. Can you tell me
about this situation? |
|
Srien |
When I went to S-21, my brother Song said I would be sent
back to Prey Sar. [Both men were first at Prey Sar and Song
sometimes went to S-21 to work as a photographer. Srien was
sent to S-21 for a short time as a prisoner. His brother
then arranged for Srien to be returned to Prey Sar]
|
|
Pheah |
What did you do at Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
When I was at Prey Sar, I was handcuffed and shackled. |
|
Pivoine |
Could you tell me in detail about the situation in Prey Sar.
I’m not clear. |
|
Srien |
I
am a good person, but they told my chief that I wasn’t a
good person. |
|
Pivoine |
How
long were you at Prey Sar. |
|
Srien |
From 1976 until 1979. When the Vietnamese came, I ran to the
mountain. |
|
Pivoine |
Earlier, you said someone once sent you to S-21.
|
|
Srien |
Yes. But after that they kept me at Prey Sar. |
|
Pivoine |
Why
did they hold you at Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
It
was because my brother worked as a photographer at both
places. |
|
Pivoine |
What did your bother do at Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
He
was a photographer and filmmaker. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did he work on films? |
|
Srien |
Near May Pleung, at Boko Cinema. |
|
Pivoine |
Had
Song ever been to S-21? |
|
Srien |
Yes, he went there often. |
|
Pivoine |
How
often did you see him?. |
|
Srien |
I
saw him at Prey Sar while building a dam. |
|
Pivoine |
Do
you know who Song took pictures of? |
|
Srien |
Prisoners and cadres. |
|
Pivoine |
When you were at Prey Sar, you were shackled. Did they
punish you? |
|
Srien |
I
worked building dams and transplanting rice. |
|
Pivoine |
When were you released from the shackles? |
|
Srien |
Between 1976 and 1977. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you know why they released you? |
|
Srien |
My
brother talked with one of my jailers. Then they sent me to
work in the fields and farm. |
|
Pivoine |
After Song and you met the first time, did you ever see each
other again? |
|
Srien |
Yes, he was a photographer at Prey Sar; he chief also worked
there. |
|
Pivoine |
After liberation in 1975, what did you do? |
|
Srien |
After liberation [1979], I ran to the mountains. |
|
Pivoine |
No,
I meant after 1975. |
|
Srien |
I
was at the office. |
|
Pivoine |
Which office? |
|
Srien |
Of
Division 703. |
|
Pivoine |
What did you do there? |
|
Srien |
I
was a guard at the factory at Chak An Rele. And then someone
if I could work with Leng. After that, I was arrested and
sent to prison. |
|
Pivoine |
While you were at Prey Sar, did you ever talk with Song? |
|
Srien |
Yes. Song would give me a cigarette, then we would talk. |
|
Pivoine |
What did you talk about? |
|
Srien |
Nothing. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
Song ever give you any of the pictures he took? |
|
Srien |
Yes. He gave me a photograph where I am wearing black
clothes. |
|
Pivoine |
Is
this your picture? |
|
Srien |
It
is a different photograph. I took this picture. Song gave me
a pair of shoes. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he give your photograph to you? |
|
Srien |
Yes, but someone who worked with me tore it up. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
Song tell you where he took the photograph [a photograph of
himself] |
|
Srien |
It
was taken at Prey Sar. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you know another place? |
|
Srien |
I
don’t know. When I came home after the Khmer Rouge
collapsed, I saw his photograph. |
|
Pivoine |
How
many photographs did you take? |
|
Srien |
Only one. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he give your photograph to you? |
|
Srien |
Yes. I put it in my pocket, but someone stole it from me. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
anyone else take your photograph? |
|
Srien |
No. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you see Song giving photographs to other people at Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
Yes. |
|
Pivoine |
After they took photograph at Prey Sar, where did they send
them? |
|
Srien |
I
don’t know. |
|
Pivoine |
After your photograph was taken, did you change your work? |
|
Srien |
I
moved to work near Kadal Pagoda. |
|
Pivoine |
Where is that? |
|
Srien |
Near Kapul Ha Pagoda. Along the road to the factory.
|
|
Pivoine |
What did you do at the pagoda? |
|
Srien |
I
looked after cows and buffalo. |
|
Pivoine |
How
long did you work there? |
|
Srien |
Until the Vietnamese enemies came. |
|
Pivoine |
When you were at Prey Sar, were you ever made to take
training? |
|
Srien |
No.
I worked until night, then I slept. |
|
Pivoine |
Besides being shackled, were you tortured in other ways? |
|
Srien |
When I arrived at Kadal Pagoda, the Khmer Rouge released me. |
|
Pivoine |
I
want to ask you about Prey Sar. |
|
Srien |
Yes, they punished [tortured me] |
|
Pivoine |
How? |
|
Srien |
They hit me on the head with an axe handle. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
they do this when you first came to Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
Yes, they tortured me. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
they torture you in other ways? |
|
Srien |
Yes. They shackled me at night. |
|
Pivoine |
When did you go home? After the regime collapsed? |
|
Srien |
Yes, I came after it collapsed and I arrived in 1979. |
|
Pivoine |
Were your parents happy when they saw you? |
|
Srien |
Yes, they were very happy. |
|
Pivoine |
When did you separate from Song? |
|
Srien |
When the Vietnamese came in 1979. He ran away. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you run away with him? |
|
Srien |
Yes. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did you meet? |
|
Srien |
At
Om Liang commune in Kampong Speu province. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you persuade him to come back home? |
|
Srien |
When we arrived in Kampong Speu, we separated. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
he tell you where he was going? |
|
Srien |
No.
Nothing. |
|
Pivoine |
Was
he carrying a gun? |
|
Srien |
Yes. |
|
Pivoine |
How
many people were running away with him? |
|
Srien |
Between 10 and 20. |
|
Pivoine |
What part of Kampong Speu was he in? |
|
Second Interview with Srun Srien |
|
Srien |
I
was given electric shocks and sent to build the airport at
Kampong Chhnang province. They sent me to Baku near Prey Sar
village. And then they sent me to Prey Sar for reeducation.
|
|
Pivoine |
What happened there? |
|
Srien |
I
looked after cows and buffalo. |
|
Pivoine |
Can
you tell me about your background? |
|
Srien |
I
joined the revolution in 1974, and then they sent me for
training in Kandal province; it was difficult. Then arrested
me. After the liberation in 1975, I was sent to Phnom Penh
near Tak Mau. I was in Division 12. Nat was the leader. And
then they sent me to Office 08 near the glass factory. They
shackled me there, accusing me of running away from the
battlefield.
After that, they sent me to Prey Sar for reeducation in
1975. I looked after the cows and buffalo and sometimes I
worked building fires under the sugar palms to make palm
juice. At Prey Sar, there were many prisoners. They came
from Sveay Rieng province. Chak Krey was also a prisoner
there. The prisoners at Prey Saw were killed at Baku. Some
of them were shackled, both men and women. The women’s and
men’s offices were different. They kept them apart and did
not allow relatives to live with each other. Sometimes, when
a man and woman fellin love with each other, they arrested
them and killed them. Some of the prisoners had worked in
the office.
The
prisoners worked carrying earth, building dams,
transplanting rice. We also worked at night. On the
weekends, they held meetings. We did not have enough food to
eat. We ate watergrass soup and banana flowers. Some
prisoners died of starvation. Others were killed.
|
|
Pivoine |
Did
you see anyone killed with your own eyes? |
|
Srien |
Yes, I did. Someone who slept next to me died, and then they
took him away.
While I was in Phnom Penh, I worked with Leng [Khmer Rouge
chief of the 08 office and head of an artillery unit].
Later, they accused me of being in Leng’s network and sent
me to prison. They also accused me of being a Lon Nol
soldier. Then they tried to send me to S-21. I was at Prey
Sar until 1979 when the Vietnamese came.
I
was tortured at Prey Sar. They tied up my feet and hung me
by them. The person who did this to me was Chhuon. A lot of
prisoners were taken away in cars at night; they were being
sent to be killed.
I
was nearly sent to Tuol Sleng. But my Srun Song, my brother,
came to the prison and talked to the officials there. After
that, I was released from my shackles and the work I was
given to do was easier (tending cattle and buffalo). I also
worked at building the airport in 1977 and 1978. I tried to
work hard and join in the meetings.
But
later, I was sent back to Prey Sar in 1978. I don’t know
why. [Possibly because his brother had been arrested]. They
had me look after the cows and buffalo again. I worked with
old ladies.
When the Vietnamese came in 1979, I ran to the forest. After
walking for a long time without any food to eat, I decided
to come back home. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
they take your biography? |
|
Srien |
Yes. They wrote about my situation before and after
liberation. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
anyone take your photograph at Prey Sar? |
|
Srien |
Yes, they took it when I worked on the farm. And they called
me to have it taken. I sat on a chair and they took it. They
also took one when I was working at the dam. |
|
Pivoine |
Where did they take the photograph? |
|
Srien |
After they took it, they sent it to S-21. |
|
Pivoine |
Did
you wonder why they took it? |
|
Srien |
The
took the photographs of all prisoners. |
|
Pivoine |
What was it like working with the old ladies? |
|
Srien |
They were from 30 to 50 years old. Some of them were older. |
|
Pivoine |
What do you think about the tribunal? |
|
Srien |
I
am happy to hear that the tribunal will occur soon. They
tied electrodes to me and shocked me. They killed a lot of
people. |
|
Makara |
Are
you angry with the Khmer Rouge? |
|
Srien |
Yes. They shocked me and killed many men and left many
widows. After the Khmer Rouge collapsed, some people hated
me and accused me of being a Khmer Rouge.
After I came back to my village in 1979, someone who lived
in the village hit my head with an axe and accused me of
being Khmer Rouge. Mys accuser drove a small car. I replied
that I didn’t work as a Khmer Rouge.
|
