Pivoine

Please tell me about your life during the Khmer Rouge regime, and what you remember.

Sarun

At first, I stayed here. I was 7 years old. I studied at Kvit Thom school and then at Oda junior high school. I finished high school in 1972. Then the fighting broke out. I went to study at Toul Svay Prey in Phnom Penh near the Sisowath School. The school’s name was 18 March. Between 1973 and 1974, I studied medicine. In 1975, the Khmer Rouge took control and I went to Prey Koy and Roka Kaung in Kampong Cham province. I was unable to return to my village because of the fighting.

I met my family in Prey Koy and Roka Kaung, where this photograph was taken. After that, I went to work in a women’s mobile unit. I also carried dirt to the rice fields.

Some people in the Khmer Rouge asked about my family. They wanted to find out whether my family was connected to the CIA or KGB. After that, I returned to my village. Later, I moved to Tangien forest. In 1979, I returned to my village.

Pivoine

Do you have any other stories to tell?

Sarun

No. I just want to find justice for me and my family members who disappeared. I joined the revolution to help my country. During the regime, if someone didn’t join, they were punished or sent to prison. I want NGOs to find justice for my family. This is because when I was young, I was forced to work hard and live in the forest. I had no rice to eat, no freedom. Now I have freedom and my son can attend school.

I was hurt because I joined the revolution for my country, but I didn’t know anything. My family members disappeared. There was no one to find justice for me.

Pivoine

I am very interested in what you told me, but I didn’t hear everything. I would like to know more. I would like to ask you some more questions about your story. I’m sorry; what is your name?

Sarun

My name is Ban Sarun.

Pivoine

How old are you?

Sarun

I am 54 years old.

Pivoine

How about your husband?

Sarun

My husband is Bueng Liep.

Pivoine

How old is he?

Sarun

He is 50 years old.

Pivoine

What is your village’s name?

Sarun

Angrong village, Kvit Thom subdistrict, Prey Chor district, Kampong Cham province.

Pivoine

When did you finish high school?

Sarun

Between 1973 and 1974. When the fighting began, I had an interim certificate, but had not graduated.

Pivoine

After you finished high school, what did you do?

Sarun

When I finished school I took an exam so that I could study medicine in Phnom Penh. After 1975 I left Phnom Pehn. I didn’t return to my village; instead, I went Prek Koy for the revolution. I was there when they took the photograph.

Pivoine

Before you left home, what was the situation in your village?

Sarun

There was fighting in Kampong Cham province, and bombing. So I ran to study in Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

Did you go to Phnom Penh when the fighting broke out?

Sarun

Yes, because I wanted to continue my studies. My brother [Ban Sarin] ran away to the forest. He studied with Tiv Ol [his friend].

Pivoine

After he finished school, he went to the forest?

Sarun

Yes because some students joined in a strike. Then he joined the Khmer Rouge.

Pivoine

How many siblings do you have?

Sarun

I have seven.

Pivoine

How many females?

Sarun

Five females and two males.

Pivoine

In addition to your medical studies, did you study anything else?

Sarun

I studied general subjects.

Pivoine

I’m a little bit confused. Earlier, you said that after you finished high school, you went to study medicine at Phnom Penh.

Sarun

I only went to Phnom Penh for a few months. Then the situation turned bad and I left.

Pivoine

Which school did you study at in Phnom Penh?

Sarun

March 18 School.

Pivoine

Oh, the first school that you told me about?

Sarun

Yes.

Pivoine

Who else studied with you at Phnom Penh?

Sarun

Some people who lived in Kampong Cham province joined me, but some of them were killed.

Pivoine

Did you have any family members living in Phnom Penh?

Sarun

My sister-in-law.

Pivoine

When you first came to Phnom Penh, what did you do?

Sarun

I studied and also worked in Prek Liap near the city. I worked very hard.

Pivoine

How many months did you study medicine?

Sarun

I studied only a few months and then people were disrupted.

Pivoine

How were they disrupted?

Sarun

By the bombs. Then I was evacuated along the road to Rka Koung and Prek Koy. I worked in a woman’s mobile unit.

Pivoine

What is Prek Koy village?

Sarun

Prek Koy is the name of a commune in Prek Koy subdistrict, Kang Meash district, Kampong Cham province. I was unable to go to my village because I was so scared.

Pivoine

What was the situation in Rka Koung?

Sarun

It was very strong. I cannot say. Someone told me not to go there because if I went, I would die. Also, I was a student and I knew that my brother was still alive. Someone in the Khmer Rouge asked me about my brother. Because they suspected him and because I was a student, I nearly died.

Pivoine

What did you do at Prek Koy village?

Sarun

I worked in the women’s mobile unit. I carried earth to the rice fields.

Pivoine

Did you work as a spy for your unit?

Sarun

No. I was a student. I only carried dirt. I had the photograph of my brother whoi was in prison. For this reason, the Khmer Rouge suspected me and wanted to send me away to kill me. But then the Khmer Rouge collapsed.

Pivoine

When you lived at Prek Koy, did Ban Sarin ask to take your picture?

Sarun

No. The photograph was taken when I went to visit my mother in my village. After I was in the village for 10 or 20 days, someone arrested my brother and sister. The Khmer Rouge made them carry earth. They also interrogated my brother and sister [Ban Sarin and Ban Savath; the latter disappeared in the forest]. I survived the regime.

Pivoine

When did you come to visit your home village?

Sarun

After 1975.

Pivoine

Did you visit your village in the same year that you were living in Prek Koy village?

Sarun

Yes. I went to visit my parents.

Pivoine

Did you run away or ask permission to go home?

Sarun

I asked permission, but it was still difficult for me to go there. I missed my mother very much.

Pivoine

How did you get home?

Sarun

I walked for one day and one night.

Pivoine

Did you come alone?

Sarun

I went alone. No one else went with me because the Khmer Rouge didn’t allow this. I wore a black dress. When I came to my village, someone said I had higher education. So I worked to make my hands look rough and I cut my nails.

Pivoine

I want to ask you more about the visit to your home village. Can you tell me more about the situation when you came home?

Sarun

All I wanted to do was talk with my family. I had only one night at home. I cried and I hugged my brother and sister. I was afraid. Later, my brother and sister disappeared. I didn’t know if someone had betrayed me. I don’t know which one is wrong and which one is right.

Pivoine

When you came home, were you able to talk to your parents?

Sarun

Yes. But I could not talk about my brother with them.

Pivoine

What sorts of problems did you discuss with your parents?

Sarun

I told them about my studies and about my work after I left Phnom Penh. The Khmer Rouge cut my hair and my fingernails, and made me wear black clothing.

Pivoine

When did they cut your hair and your nails?

Sarun

In 1975. And I also worked very hard.

Pivoine

When was the photograph taken?

Sarun

It was taken after I left Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

Where was it taken?

Sarun

In my house in this village.

Pivoine

Where is your house?

Sarun

I sold my house.

Pivoine

Who took the photograph?

Sarun

I don’t know. I forgot.

Pivoine

Who else is the photograph (the two children standing near you)?

Sarun

They are my nephew and niece.

Pivoine

Do you remember their names?

Sarun

I don’t remember.

Sarom

The girl is Nak and the boy is Reak. Their parents were taken away to be killed at Steung Trang.

Pivoine

When was the photograph taken?

Sarun

I only know the year: 1975 when they made me wear the black clothes and I visited my parents.

Pivoine

When you visited home, were your brother and sister also there?

Sarun

Yes, my brother came.

Pivoine

When your brother came home, did he take the camera? Who took your photograph?

Sarun

I don’t know who took the picture. I don’t remember. When I came home, my brother and sister were happy. But there were a lot of people in my house, so I don’t remember who took the picture.

Pivoine

Were other photographs taken at this time?

Sarun

Yes. I took the pictures because I wanted to keep them after our family separated.

Pivoine

Were they pictures of your family?

Sarun

No. They were killed between 1976 and 1977. They didn’t allow me to see my family during this time.

Pivoine

When you came home, which brothers and sisters came with you?

Sarun

All my brothers. But I was young. My brothers and sisters were told to farm at Phnom Penh. I called them to meet me at my village.

Pivoine

After you returned from visiting your village, what did you do?

Sarun

I worked in the mobile unit at Prey Kok village.

Pivoine

What did you do in this village?

Sarun

I worked in the mobile unit. And I was a student. I transplanted rice and taught children. The work was very hard. My brother disappeared. I still wonder what happened. Why did I have so much work during the revolution? They took my brother away to kill him.

Pivoine

Is your brother in the photograph?

Sarun

Yes, he is Phen [Ban Sarin].

Pivoine

When did he join the revolution?

Sarun

1967 or 1968.

Pivoine

How did he join?

Sarun

Like I told you, he studied at Kampong Cham with Tiv Ol.

Pivoine

Did he graduate?

Sarun

Yes. My father wanted him to study for his family’s sake. And then the Khmer Rouge took him to join the revolution.

Pivoine

What was his work?

Sarun

After he was a student, he worked as a combatant.

Pivoine

Where did he fight?

Sarun

I don’t know because I was in Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

Which brother is in the photograph?

Sarun

My third brother.

Pivoine

What was his name?

Sarun

Ban Saroeun.

Pivoine

What did he do?

Sarun

After the revolution, I don’t know what happened to him. But I do know that he went to Korea with Hu Nim and Hu Yun.

Pivoine

Did he go to Korea?

Sarun

Yes.

Pivoine

When the photograph was taken, why are his clothes better than those of his friends?

Sarun

He was a leader. The others were members.

Pivoine

What did he do?

Sarun

Oh, I don’t remember.

Sarom

Before 1975, he went to Kratie Province where he worked as the provincial governor. Between 1976 and 1977, he was arrested.

Pivoine

Why was he arrested?

Sarom

Someone called him to study and then he disappeared. They accused him of betraying the party on the battlefield.

Pivoine

I would like to ask you when we went to Korea to study.

Sarom

I don’t know, but I know he worked in the Korean embassy. He told me about this.

Pivoine

Did he study when he was in Korea?

Sarom

I don’t know, but some of the men who stayed with him died. Their names were Koeun, Yim and Naem.

Pivoine

When the photographs were taken, how old was your brother?

Sarom

They were taken between 1975 and 1976; he disappeared in 1976. He was born in the year of the rooster [he was about 30 years old]

Pivoine

Was the photograph taken when he came home to visit?

Sarun

Yes. He came with other members of the Party.

Pivoine

Did he join the revolution by himself?

Sarun

Yes. He also recruited his brother Phen [disappeared] into the revolution. And then he recruited my sister as well.

Pivoine

What is her name?

Sarun

Ban Savath [disappeared].

Pivoine

Can you tell me about the children in the photograph?

Sarun

They are my nephew and niece, but they disappeared.

Pivoine

So, were the photographs taken in your home?

Sarun

Yes, all of them were taken there. My brother was the photographer.

Pivoine

Were other cadre with him that day?

Sarom

Yes, they were. He was arrested in 1977. In that year, he went to study in Phnom Penh and then he was arrested and sent to prison. I don’t know whether he died in prison or not.

Sarun

In his biography, he did not say how many siblings he had. If he had told, would have come to kill us.

Sarom

I have kept the photograph until know. No one has seen it. I have given it to Pheakh so that he can see the truth. I want everyone to see the original picture. My brother sent me this photograph from Kratie province to keep as a souvenir. He came back to the village and took me to live with him. We lived with the ethnic minorities there.

Pivoine

How long did he spend in the village when he came to visit?

Sarom

Only one night; then he took me with him.

Pivoine

Did your brother take you with him?

Sarun

Yes, he took me, too.

Pivoine

I want to ask you more. When did you get married?

Sarun

I was married after 1979.

Pivoine

Do you have a copy of your marriage photograph?

Sarun

[She brings out a picture]. My brother-in-law took this.

Pivoine

What was his name?

Sarun

His name is Thiem. But he died.

Pivoine

When was this picture taken [shows a photograph of her brother-in-law]?

Sarun

Between 1975 and 1976, when Thiem was married. 

Pivoine

Why is Rom [the brother in law’s wife] wearing traditional wedding pants?

Sarun

Because the revolution hadn’t quite begun then.

Pivoine

Did the Khmer Rouge organize the ceremony?

Sarun

No, it was their parents. That’s why they are wearing traditional clothing.

Pivoine

Do you remember their names?

Sarun

The man is Thiem and the woman is Rom.

Pheakh

Did the Khmer Rouge allow women to wear flowers in their hair when they got married?

Sarun

Although they were married in 1975, the revolution hadn’t yet begun.

Pivoine

Where did they get married?

Sarun

At Thok Chrao.

Pivoine

Where is this place?

Sarun

In Kang Meash district.

Pivoine

So, after you returned to the village to visit, did you return to Prek Koy? Did you do the same work?

Sarun

Yes. I worked carrying dirt until the regime collapsed.

Pivoine

When did the regime collapse?

Sarun

Between 1978 and 1979. They caught my brother, arrested him, and killed him. Before that, he was a student. I was also a student.

Pivoine

Did you know why they arrested your brother?

Sarun

No. I kept my background secret. But the Khmer Rouge leaders knew my background.

Pivoine

Did you know about these photographs?

Sarun

This one is my mother. This one is my sister in law (Phen’s wife). The Khmer Rouge killed my sister in law.

Pivoine

Was your sister in law killed?

Sarun

Yes. First they caught my brother Phen. A few days later they took my sister in law away. If my brother had written that he had a sister in his biography, I would have been taken away and killed. But he didn’t.

Pivoine

When was Phen arrested?

Sarun

In 1976.

Pivoine

What happened to his children?

Sarun

They were also killed. None of his immediate family survived. And his wife was not sent to Prey Sar for re-education. She was killed.

Pivoine

Where was she killed?

Sarun

At Kang Meash in O Trakoun pagoda.

Pivoine

What about your brother?

Sarun

He was sent to prison. Later, he was arrested and sent to Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

Do you know any of the people in this photograph? [Three old men]

Sarun

The man on the far right is my father.

Pivoine

What was his name?

Sarun

Ban Chhaom. He died.

Pivoine

When did he die?

Sarun

After 1979.

Pivoine

Do you remember where the photograph was taken?

Sarun

At my brother and sister in law’s house.

Pivoine

What about the other two men?

Sarun

These two men had come to visit.

Pivoine

But before, you told me the man on the left was Kang’s father in law.

Sarun

Yes. He came with them, but he died. He was 80 years old when he died.

Pivoine

When you see these photographs again, how do you feel?

Sarun

I am very shocked and I pity myself. After 1979, my one of my brothers brought the photographs to me, to this house.

Pivoine

Do you feel different when you look at these old photographs?

Sarun

Yes, very different.

Pivoine

Different how?

Sarun

When I was young, I tried to study hard and work. But after the revolution, I had nothing. No one found justice for me. Now I want to find the truth. But I don’t know what the truth is.

Pivoine

Have you ever talked with other villagers or your children about your life during the regime?

Sarun

I never told the villagers about it, but I did tell my children about my life under the Khmer Rouge.

Pivoine

What sort of justice do you want?

Sarun

I want the NGOs to find justice for me, my brothers who disappeared and died. But no one has found justice for them. I tried to work hard during the regime, but I had no money. I was separated from my parents and I didn’t have enough to eat. I lived in the forest. My sister Ban Savath was sent to Prey Sar for re-education. But now all of them have disappeared. Now, I have nothing. I want to live in a good situation. I don’t want anyone to make me work hard. My brother and sister had high educations, but nothing came of it. Instead, they were forced to liberate the country.

Pivoine

Is Ban Savath still alive?

Sarun

She was sent to Prey Sar for re-education.

Pivoine

Why was she sent there?

Sarun

She was young and still a student. After Ban Savath returned from Prey Sar, she ran to the forest.

Pivoine

When was that?

Sarun

Between 1971 and 1972 [during the Lon Nol regime].

Pivoine

Why was she sent to Prey Sar?

Sarun

When a group of people held strikes in Kampong Cham province, she was arrested.

Pivoine

What did she do?

Sarun

Before she was sent to Prey Sar, she worked in a factory in Kampong Cham province.

Pivoine

Can you tell me more about her?

Sarun

At first she worked in a factory and someone accused her of being a Khmer Rouge. Then, she was arrested. Next, they arrested my brother which brother?. Together, they ran to the forest.

Pivoine

When was she released from Prey Sar?

Sarun

In 1973.

Pivoine

Did you ever visit her at Prey Sar?

Sarun

Yes. But only for a short time. I went with my mother to visit her.

Pivoine

What was the situation in your village during Lon Nol?

Sarun

Very cruel. And the work was very hard.

Pivoine

Cruel in what way?

Sarun

There wasn’t enough food to eat. And my sister was in Prey Sar and her situation was not good.

Pivoine

Did you know who was in control at Prey Sar?

Sarun

I don’t know; I was young.

Pivoine

Did you ever join in the strikes?

Sarun

Yes. And I was also arrested. We were striking over our wages.

Pivoine

How many days did you spend visiting your sister in Prey Sar?

Sarun

Only a day. We were only able to meet for half an hour.

Pivoine

Where was she released to?

Sarun

Phnom Penh. I didn’t know who let her out.

Pivoine

After you came back to your village in 1979, what was your situation?

Sarun

I did not have enough food to eat, but I was happy. I didn’t have to do hard work and I was able to meet my family. Also, I began building my own family.

Pivoine

What did you do after 1979?

Sarun

I transplanted rice, worked as a farmer. I was also a medical worker.

Pivoine

What sorts of ailments did you treat when you studied in Phnom Penh before 1975?

Sarun

I could treat general ailments.

Pivoine

What kind of sicknesses?

Sarun

For example, typhoid fever, diarrhea, malaria, dengue fever.

Pivoine

During the regime, did you ever use your knowledge to cure people?

Sarun

I’m telling you the truth. When I saw someone who was sick, there was no one to treat them properly. The Khmer Rouge kept drugs in bottles to treat people. And they didn’t follow proper medical practices. If I had told them that, they would have killed me.

Pivoine

Did you help anyone who had medical problems?

Sarun

Yes, I felt sorry for many people who will ill. The Khmer Rouge took them to the mobile units. And I saw the young children who had been bitten by mosquitoes and treated them. They still remember me. Now they are grown up have become adults. They are very happy now.

Pivoine

Why don’t you use your knowledge today and work in medicine? You studied in this field.

Sarun

Today, I work as a medical practitioner. This helps me earn extra money.

Pivoine

What is your occupation today?

Sarun

I work at the district office as a medical practitioner.

Pivoine

In this village?

Sarun

Yes, near my house. When people are sick, they call me. And if I cannot treat someone, I send them to the district office.

Pivoine

What kind of treatments do you give?

Sarun

General. I am a midwife and family planner.

Pivoine

Can you work as a midwife?

Sarun

No, I work as a family planner. I teach people in my village how to plan their families.

Pivoine

After the Khmer Rouge collapsed, did you continue to study in your field?

Sarun

Yes, I took short courses in the district. They were given by an NGO.

Pivoine

What courses?

Sarun

I studied about sicknesses of the blood and water purification. I teach people about this and work with PSI [an NGO]. I hand out pills to the people, and I treat them. I also hand out condoms.

Pivoine

How long were the courses?

Sarun

A half month; but some are only 10 days. I want to help the people in my village.

Pivoine

If the tribunal happens soon, what do you want to see occur?

Sarun

Yes, I want the tribunal to happen soon because I want to judge the Khmer Rouge and take them out and kill them. They told me before I joined the revolution that I would be helping to liberate the country. But then they took my family away to be killed. But I’m not scared of them anymore.

Pivoine

OK, many thanks for your answers.

Interview with Ban Sarom (sister of Ban Sarun)

Sarom

Ban Sarom.

Pivoine

How old are you?

Sarom

More than 40 years old.

Pivoine

How much older than 40?

Sarom

Maybe between 42 and 43.

Pivoine

What is your husband’s name?

Sarom

Van Chan Than.

Pivoine

How old is he?

Sarom

Maybe 48.

Pivoine

I’m sorry. I’d like you to tell me about your photograph because what you have told me so far is very interesting. Your sister has already talked with me, and I’d like to hear more from you. After the photograph was taken, when did you receive it?

Sarom

The photographs were taken in Kratie province. I took them to my house after 1979.

Pivoine

Did you stay with your brother there [Phen]?

Sarom

Yes, I lived with him.

Pivoine

Did you come with him when he visited your home?

Sarom

Yes.

Pivoine

What is your father’s name?

Sarom

Chhaom.

Pivoine

What did you do at Kratie province?

Sarom

I worked in a mobile unit.

Pivoine

What sort of work?

Sarom

I transplanted rice and carried dirt.

Pivoine

When did he give you the photograph.

Sarom

I have kept it and like to look at it since we were separated.

Pivoine

When did you take the photograph of him?

Sarom

By brother gave it to me in 1979 [confused].

Pivoine

Who gave it to you?

Sarom

In 1979 I returned home.

Pivoine

Who gave you the photograph?

Sarom

The photograph is of my brother. In 1976, he was arrested. He told me “Go to work. Don’t be lazy. Be careful, or someone will take you to be killed.” When my brother was arrested, I asked the governor, “Where is my brother?” They said that my brother had betrayed the revolution.

Pivoine

Who was the governor?

Sarom

My brother, but after he was arrested, someone else became the governor. There were three types of governors: political, military, and [???]. My brother was a political governor. They punished me.

Pivoine

How did they punish you?

Sarom

No reply. [adds] I had to work very hard.

Pivoine

Before your brother was arrested, did he visit you? [while they were in Kratie, the two lived in different houses]

Sarom

Yes. He came to visit me and told me not to be lazy and to try and work hard.

Pivoine

When he visited you, did he give you the photographs?

Sarom

Yes. He wanted me to keep them.

Pivoine

Did anyone else ask about the photographs?

Sarom

Yes, but I hid them in my dress. I also kept gold there. My mother gave me the gold. I told my mother to keep the gold in a small box.

Pivoine

Before you joined the revolution, where did you study?

Sarom

I didn’t study.

Pivoine

So, only your brother and sister studied?

Sarom

Yes, they studied, but I was much younger.

Pivoine

How old were you when you lived in Kratie province?

Sarom

In 1973 [a bit confused, probably between 73 and 77]

Pivoine

Did you return to Kratie after the photographs were taken?

Sarom

Yes, I went to Kratie with my brother.

Pivoine

What did you do before 1975?

Sarom

Nothing; I stayed with my mother.

Pivoine

You lived in this village?

Sarom

Yes, in this village.

Sarun

No one would find justice for us as Hou Nim and Hau Yun [Khmer Rouge leaders] also stayed in prison. Loving our nation, I went out of Phnom Penh in 1975 and I took photographs. When I came I saw my brother was coming to visit me and there I met my nephew and nieces. That woman [Wynne] said that I looked happy because I met two of my relatives. When I arrived they were cutting their nails, wearing shoes, wearing black clothes, with scarves. When I graduated, I said that I did not know anything, but they said that I was a high-class student.

Youk

When did you take the photographs?

Sarun

It was taken when I visited home, but it was this house. It was at my mother's house when I came to visit my relatives at the district. They said after finishing it, we would have a proper salary. In 1975 and 1976 they caught my elder brother by accusing him that he was KGB.

Pivoine

Which of your siblings was taken before him?

Sarun

They took my brother first and wanted to catch me as well, but they could not find my biography in Prey Sa prison. They took only my brother as my biography was lost.

Youk

Pivoine, try to find that confession.

Pivoine

Yes.

Sarun

You should search for it; Saroeun [her brother] was student at the Royal University of Phnom Penh and was working under Tiv Aol.

Pivoine

He used to study in Korea, right?

Sarun

Yes, he had been to Korea, but disappeared. Hou Nim and Hou Yun were killed because they loved their nation too much. The King went to Maky jungle and if my elder sibling was there, he or she would be taken to be imprisoned. The reason was that, my elder sister was caught and she was beaten until breaking her ribs.

Pivoine

They [Hou Nim and Hou Yun] were caught in 1971-1972 right?

Sarun

In 1968-1969, there was a demonstration in Kampong Cham factory during Tiv Aol time. It is painful that they were all very educated and afraid of demonstration. No matter what side you were on, we should be in the middle; it is better. I was so afraid when I saw my relatives were caught and disappeared. I was so delighted when hearing that they are going to have a tribunal because in my entire life is to wish to have justice for our people in the country. And I wanted to ask about your opinion, what do you think then? The people who fought for our country betrayed it instead. But fighting for the country at that time was too much suffering.

Sokhym

That's right. That's why they are going to have the tribunal in order to make people feel relief and for finding justice for them why Khmer Rouge did such a thing?

Sarun

We did it because we did not want Vietnam to invade our country. Our border was really good, but nowadays, we don't know. I am tired of planting kapok tree and others. That's why, now I am working very hard for people to find justice and told my children to study hard so they can develop the country in the future. If they are not educated, they would be treated badly and killed like in Pol Pol regime.

If my brother had not put in the biography that he was with his wife, our relatives would all have died. When you [the PA team] first came to ask my mother about our story, they did not know that I was here. The district chief also said that Ban Sarun did not know about the relatives. But they knew that Ban Chhaom and Phin Yin [her parents] were living in Angkrang Village with a son called Ban Sarin. And they [the PA team] searched for something and gave me for reading. I said that I did not want to know about it anymore. At that time we fought for the country and did not have any salary. Can you think of that? The reality was that we lived in the jungle during 1967-1968. Oh my God it was terrible and those who were caught were sent to Prey Sa prison.

My elder sister called Ban Savath was caught in Kampong Cham Province. My elder sister called Ban Saroeun was beaten in order to answer the questions they asked during 1968-1969. And for me I could not study. In 1969-1970, I studied Bac 1, then Premier Bac 1 and Terminier and then to Phnom Penh. I hid with my eldest sibling and worked in agriculture at Prek Leap to plant water lilies.

Pivoine

You said you live in Phnom Penh. Was that in Prek Leap?

Sarun

That's right. I told you last time, but I was wrong to tell the biography of my 8 relatives.

Pivoine

Yes, when I saw it, it was a little confusing.

Sarun

You want to clarify or not?

Pivoine

Yes.

Sarun

Do it, write down in the biography or whatever.

Sokhym

Aunty, I would like you to tell about your elder brother called Ban Sarin. What kind of person he was and what were his characteristics?

Sarun

Yes, My brother who was imprisoned. He was older than me. However, we studied in the same grade and knew about each other well. My younger sister did not know much and the other two were my elder siblings.

First, he studied in primary school in Kha-vit Thom School. We walked through Kanh-Charaing to study and then we went to secondary school. It was in our grade 9, 8 or 7. We did the exam in Kuntheak Bopha. In Kuntheak Bopha School Ban Sarin was already pass the secondary school and I took the exam after him. After passing the secondary school for many years in 1966. 3 years later he was in his Bac I and it was in 1968-1969. And I was one year after him and that was in 1969-1970. When he took the exam to the university in Kampong Cham province in 1968, 1969, and 1970 and that time I was only in Bac I. People will know the school I attended because it belongs to Sihanouk.

In 1968-1969 Ban Sarinwent to study in Kampong Cham university and then it was almost time for the liberation.  We studied for our country and when we went to the Kampong Cham factory, my elder sister did not have enough money. My mother was a farmer and sold our farm in order to support the children's education. Two of my elder sisters worked in the factory and when one was caught, there was another sister who had a husband who worked as a farmer at Prek Leap. My elder sister who was caught was still single and Ban Sarin went to work in Kampong Cham factory because studied in Kampong Cham university.  After he worked at the factory, he went to the jungle. It was called Kong jungle, in front of the lycee (Keakrouk Kosal University, a teacher’s college). My brother was there during 1968, 1969, and 1970. When there was a demonstration, he went to the jungle in 1971; that was my brother Ban Sarin.

Pivoine

How old was he when he went to the jungle?

Sarun

We can subtract the year. After I finished Bac I, went to Kampong Cham and he went to university during 1970-1971 and we can subtract it.

Pivoine

How long had he been studying in university?

Sarun

2 or 3 years

Pivoine

How did you know that he went to the jungle? He went with his friends or what?

Sarun

Why did he go to the jungle? The first reason was that he was caught and was really scared. They tried to find him via his connections. Then they caught my elder sister in Kampong Cham factory and then she was imprisoned. The second reason was that, while studying there was an activity trying to fight for the country. Hou Nim, Hou Yun, Tiv Aol, especially Tiv Aol , were studying there. He could not stand it there and then went to the jungle. During that time, it was terrible. They tried to catch us and I thought that I left my parents. And I studied in Kuntheak Bopha and had not gone to any province. Then I tried to find another way to ask about my parents from the villagers. I found out that my parents were not at home. Sometimes they tried to catch the children and then they asked whether it was aKhmer Rouge house or whether we worked as Lon Nol soldiers.

Pivoine

When did you go to the jungle?

Sarun

From 1971 to 1972.

Pivoine

Did he go with a lot of people?

Sarun

I am not sure whether it was with lots of people or few. I hid myself in Phnom Penh during that time.

Pivoine

Have you received any news from him, such as a letter, after he went to the jungle?

Sarun

He did not let our parents know, but the villagers knew that he was not here because they were trying to catch him. They caught my elder sister and sent her to Prey Sa prison. Everyone was so scared because they beat them until breaking their ribs. Then we began to become stronger in order to fight back.

Pivoine

They caught your elder sister called Ban Savath and took her to Prey Sa in the Lon Nol regime?

Sarun

During the Sihanouk regime, the Sihanouk government took them

Pivoine

So, Prey Sa was created since then?

Sarun

Yes, Sihanouk was still here and it was a tough time

Pivoine

For how long since you got some information from him?

Sarun

I heard it from 1975 and missed each other since then. I thought that he was dead already because there wasn't any news from him. Besides, my parents should have had some information about him since they are the parents.

Pivoine

In 1975, you came back?

Sarun

In 1975 Ban Sarin and I came back and they searched for me then they knew. They said my relatives were still there and came back to visit in Kha-vit Tauch.

Pivoine

What did he say when he come back?

Sarun

He only said- Don't worry, we have liberated the country for this success. He did not know that he caught people in 1975, they reorganized the country and started to have salary.  In 1976, they caught a lot of people and accused them of being KGB. They took villagers to prisons and some were killed terribly. This person was lucky that he was imprisoned and got his biography left, but for others we did not know where they died.

Pivoine

What were their names, Aunt?

Sarun

Ban Savath left Prey Sa prison and went to work with them. And then someone broke into the prison, and they ran away. Between 1975 and 1976, Ban Sarin was arrested, but I don’t know where. I was scared then that they would arrest me.  But my sister didn’t tell Angkar that she had siblings; she kept it secret. 

Pivoine

Did Ban Sarin tell you about his work when you met in 1975?

Sarun

He said he was in a division and that my other brother was in Kratie province.

Pivoine

Who was in Kratie province?

Sarun

Ban Saroeun. He wanted me to find the biographies of Hou Nim and Hou Yun. Were they in prison? In the Khmer Rouge regime, Hou Nim, Hou Yun, and Ban Saroeun had similar studies. After the liberation, he went to Korea. He could speak English and French. My sibling was highly educated. I’m very sorry; I’m very sorry about them, so I want my children to have a high education too. I told them not to do what my siblings and I did.

Youk

Now, where do your children study?

Sarun

I support them to study. Maybe they can help me in the future. They study in Phnom Penh.

Sokhym

What about your brother Sarin?

Sarun

He was a gentleman. If you don’t believe me, you can ask the neighbors. When he learned that the Khmer Rouge had taken me, he cried. He loved my siblings very much.

Pivoine

After Sarin visited home, where did he go?

Sarun

He didn’t visit home. Oh, he did come [she was confused] and then he went to Kampong Cham, just as it says in his biography. And then he was arrested. When he came home, he took the photograph. So I was very lucky to have met him. So, please write my family’s story.

Pivoine

How about the two children in the photograph? [9]

Sarun

They were my Ban Saroeun’s children. His wife was Ra.

Pivoine

When did he go to Korea?

Sarun

In 1975, after he visited home. The reason I know he went to Korea was that he sent a letter to me. He was sent by the embassy, and then he was arrested.

Sokhym

How many days after he returned from Korea was he arrested?

Sarun

I don’t know. We had been separated since 1976 or 1977

Pivoine

So, I came here because I want to ask you more about him.

Sarun

OK

Sokhym

In his biography it says he was arrested in 1976.

Sarun

I know he went to study at Phnom Penh. Of course, he was arrested. That is why they took his biography. I nearly cried when I saw his biography. Ban Sarin worked in the factory because he wanted to save money for my and my siblings’ study.

Pivoine

I’m sorry. After someone told you he [Ban Sarouen] went to study in Korea, what happened to his children?

Sarun

Someone arrested them. They were killed.

Pivoine

What about his wife?

Sarun

She was also arrested, but I don’t know where they killed her. Before they arrested her, they told her they would take her to meet her husband. I think it was a trick.

Sokhym

When did you meet him in 1975? Did he believe in Angkar?

Sarun

Yes, of course, he wanted to help his country. He believed in Angkar because some people had no salary and he hoped that he could help the country improve.

Pivoine

After someone arrested Saroeun, how long after did they take the children?

Sarun

I don’t know, but they took the children after they arrested him. My brother Ban Saroeun was arrested. Then they arrested his wife and they were killed. If he had stated in his biography that he had siblings, I also would have been arrested, and my parents, too.

Pivoine

Where did they take them?

Sarun

The wife was taken to be killed at O Trokuon.

Pivoine

Where is that?

Sarun

At Korng Meas district, Peam Chikorng commune.

Youk

Did you know what is justice for you?

Sarun

This is my opinion. I lost my siblings. When you came to meet me, I was very happy with your organization and making the tribunal happen, and to find justice for my brother. My brother tried to help the country and he devoted everything to it. They left home and had no salary.

Youk

The leaders of the Khmer Rouge caused your family to die. Do you want to punish them in order to feel released?

Sarun

I would like the tribunal to sentence those who killed the people. To find justice for me, I want them to pay something to me, but not money, gold, dollars. There is nothing to pay me back for losing my siblings. I broke my gallbladder and heart, and I nearly went crazy because I also worked hard in the Khmer Rouge regime. I’m 54 now. Now I try to work and study in order to escape from everything bad in the past. So I’m happy to have researchers like you to find justice.

Youk

So, you think that if the tribunal happens, you will feel better?

Sarun

Yes. If it happens, I can forget. When I’m reminded of the past, I’m always sad and angry, so let us find justice. If they can pay something to the people, let them do it for the younger generation because they can develop the country. My son and daughter are also educated; they can think and have good opinions. So we can have Cambodians find justice for the people who died.  Before, I think of my country, I should care about myself.

Youk

So, do you think of yourself first, and then your country?

Sarun

Yes. You can ask my neighbors. If someone wants me to help them give birth, I will do it every time because I try to find money to pay for my son and daughter at university, and I also want to help my country. Before, I was scared.

Youk

Had you ever seen our magazine?

Sarun

Yes. When I saw it, it expressed my opinions. The first time your group came to talk to me, I didn’t know what they were doing. But when I saw the magazine, I knew they were telling the truth.

Pivoine

So, you can go to my office to see documents.

Sarun

Yes. I’ll wait for my son to take me there.

Youk

If you want to see some documents, you can go by yourself to see them.

Pivoine

We have an office for researching documents.

Youk

I also help to promote the program on the radio.

Pivoine

Would you like to speak on the radio? You can tell your story. All people in the country can hear you.

Sarun

I’m not scared.

Youk

Sometimes your children didn’t believe you because they are still young.

Sarun

My son also works at a newspaper. He said it’s no problem for someone to ask me things if they want to find the truth. Please tell them the truth, he said, because our family also suffered during the regime. So they help us to research and we have to give alms. My son is educated and I also have the photographs.

Youk

Do you think that it will be difficult to find the photographs now? Is it like finding a thread in the sea?

Sarun

I would like to say thank you to your NGO for researching the photograph and my brother’s biography. I guess I didn’t see it. There is no one to find justice for me. I will always remember my brothers and sister who was sent to Prey Sar to be educated. My sister demonstrated and struck; I know because I studied at Kampong Cham with her at Prey Tateng. When I heard that my sister was arrested, I could not take my exams. My son said that we have to find a frame in which to put my brother’s biography.

Pivoine

I will try to find more information for you.

Sarun

I think there is more information about Ban Saroeun because in Pol Pot time, someone took him to Korea, but I think that they took him to kill him instead. Do you have biographies for Hou Nim and Hou Yun’s biographies?

Pivoine

Yes, we do.

Sarun

How about Tiv Ol?

Pivoine

I have that one also.

Youk

We can also look for their confessions.

Pivone

I think that once someone was arrested that person, then got more confessions.

Sarun

Yes, maybe they got hurt, but I think it had stopped with my brother Ban Saroeun and I would never find out about him. But then the PA team found out about my parents. My brother has the same face in this photograph as in his biography.

Youk

My office is near national monument.

Sarun

Before rented a house near the monument, near Kapko market. But now, my nephew bought a new house, so they stay with my nephew. When my son is free, I’d like him to take me to your office.

Pivoine

In the magazine, I’ll also write my telephone number for you.  You can call me.

Sarun

Thank you everybody. The old lady in my village said the Khieu Samphan saw the message from Ly Chao Chy. He came to Kamong Cham with Sihanouk and then they saw that there were a lot of people who were still alive. Ly sent a message to Khieu Samphan. When Khieu Samphan received the message, a lot of people were destroyed. Khieu tore it up and people survived. He the Ly victory.

Pivoine

What year?

Sarun

1979.

Pivoine

Where did Khieu Samphan come from?

Sarun

He came to stay here [in Kampong Cham]

Pivoine

Who told you this?

Sarun

Yom, the old lady near my house. She heard it from other people.

Pivoine

Where is Yom?

Sarun

She is too old. She said this to a lot of people, but didn’t see it herself.

Pivoine

Did she meet Khieu Samphan?

Sarun

No.  But she met Sihanouk. They didn’t allow people to meet Khieu Samphan or Ly.

Pivoine

What is Ly’s nationality?

Sarun

Chinese. Khieu Samphan destroyed the message from Ly. Yom told me this. Yom told me that her nephew also said this. It was so people in Prey Chor district could survive. The villagers said Khieu Samphan hated them.

Youk

When did you build this house?

Sarun

In 1991.

Pivoine

I came to see you again because I wanted to ask you a few questions more. Could you tell me your siblings’ names?

Sarun

The first time I was confused and forgot. I have 8 siblings. The oldest is Ban Savoeun, female; she is over 60 now, and lives in Srao village, Kampong Thmor subdistrict, Taing Krasang district, Kampong Thom province.

Pivoine

I hope to meet her one day because I also have plans to go there.

Sarun

The second is Ban Savath. She was arrested and sent to Prey Sar. She disappeared in 1976. The third was Ban Saroeun aka Kang, male. After that was
Ban Sarin, aka Phen. After that was me, Ban Sarun. Next was Ban Saran, then Ban Sarom, aka Rom, disappeared. The last one was Ban Sokhom. He works in agriculture in Kampong Thom Province.

Pivoine

Can you tell me about Ban Savath?

Sarun

She had little education because my family is poor. She wanted to find money to pay for her siblings. My father sent her to work at the factory when she was 18. But between 1967 and 1968, she was sent to Prey Sar prison. The reason she was arrested was because she demonstrated and went on strike to get salary. But they accused her of being a Khmer Rouge and sent her to prison. She was released in 1972. When she was in prison, she was so thin, and suffered. She had no food or water. After she left the prison, she ran into the forest.

Pivoine

Which forest?

Sarun

I don’t know which one because I was in Phnom Penh. By my father said she went to the forest. My brother Phen also went to the forest. My sister Savath went to the forest before Phen. My parents were so poor. They sent me to study at Phnom Penh and live with my sister Savoeun. Her husband worked in agriculture at Prek Leap near Phnom Penh. My mother lived with my sister. My sister was too young to go to the revolution.

Pivoine

Did Ban Savath have a husband?

Sarun

No.

Pivoine

Did she go to the forest?

Sarun

Yes, when she was over 20 years old. She was between 31 and 32 years old.

Pivoine

Did you know what she did in the forest?

Sarun

She worked as a tailor. After 1975, they sent her to Phnom Penh to work at O’Russei market. She worked in the Commercial Ministry.

Pivoine

How long did she work there?

Sarun

In 1975, she visited home. And then she went back to Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

I’m sorry, could you tell me how did you meet her?

Sarun

In Kampong Cham Province. My brother called them.

Pivoine

How did he do this?

Sarun

He sent each of them a message. There was no phone, so he sent a messenger.

Sokhym

Did you know where she worked as a tailor? Her chief was at the Commercial Ministry?

Sarun

Yes, but I forgot. I wasn’t interested at that time.

Sokkhym

Where did all of your siblings meet? What did the commune chief say?

Sarun

The village chief had not yet begun having people having people killed. Then he himself was killed. I don’t remember who. They let me stay a long time because I was of a high class.

Sokhym

What does it mean, high class?

Sarun

Petty bourgeoise.

Sokhym

I saw them write this in other biographies.

Sarun

After primary school, they called the students who were educated this. But I didn’t tell them and they said that I studied at Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

How about Savath?

Sarun

She was gentle. She worked in the factory, and was a leader of the strikes.

Pivoine

She was sent to Prey Sar and they punished her. Did you witness this?

Sarun

She told me. Prey Sar was opened in the Sihanouk regime. She had a bad smell when she was in prison. When I visited her at the prison with my mother, I brought shampoo and when she left the prison, she walked with a limp.

Pivoine

After her photograph was taken in your village, did you go to Kratie with your brother? Who went with your brother?

Sarun

Sarom.

Pivoine

What was your brother’s name?

Sarun

Saroeun.

Pivoine

When Ban Sarom wanted to go with Ban Saroeun, did the chiefs agree to let her?

Sarun

Yes, they agreed because my brother missed my sister very much. He also took my mother with him. And then they disappeared.

Pivoine

What did Sarom do at Kratie province?

Sarun

She was in the mobile unit because she was young.

Pivoine

Did she met Saroeun at Kratie?

Sarun

Saroeun worked at the provincial office and Sarom in the mobile unit.

Pivoine

Did they live together?

Sarun

No. They didn’t allow this.

Pivoine

Please tell me about Saroeun, who went to Korea.

Sarun

Someone told me. I found about it after research. I knew that he was killed. Before, he studied at school with Tiv Ol.

Pivoine

When we first met, you said your brother went with the Korean ambassador.

Sarun

Someone told me that. After they took my brother, they also arrested his wife.  This was after the liberation.

Pivoine

Where did they work at the embassy?

Sarun

I heard this from someone; I don’t know where. He disappeared after he came back from home. Someone said he died. And then, they said that they took my brother to study at Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

After this photograph was taken, what did you do?

Sarun

I worked in the mobile unit.

Pivoine

For how long?

Sarun

Until 1979 or 1979. And then they switched armies and allowed me to live at my village, but I didn’t go there.

Pivoine

Where did you go?

Sarun

They sent me to Chrey Reap commune. I worked in a mobile unit there and I suffered a lot. I don’t want to talk about my problems there because they thought that I had a bad background. They sent my siblings to be killed, but I don’t know who betrayed them.  I was scared. I tried to work hard. I was hopeless. If I didn’t work hard, I would have been killed.

Pivoine

Now, we have no problems like that.

Sarun

Yes, I know. I want to tell you my story.

Pivoine

What did your parents do during the Khmer Rouge?

Sarun

They didn’t do anything because they were old.

Pivoine

Did they work in your village?

Sarun

Yes. At Kvit Toch village.

Pivoine

Would you like to say anything else? If you have any questions, please ask me.

Sarun

I am happy that you asked me and had your NGO meet me, and to research my background. I want your NGO to find justice for me.

Sokkhym

If the tribunal takes place, we will know.

Sarun

I will be happy if it takes place. During the regime, even though we were good people, if we didn’t do what they wanted, we would be killed. So I want to know, which people are the Khmer Rouge and who are those who struggled for their country? No one is completely good. So I want to find the leaders who killed the people. I’m not scared about this.

Pivoine

Would you like to ask any other questions?

Sarun

I would like the tribunal to happen soon.

Youk

We have a program for the villagers. When the tribunal happens, we will invite the villagers to attend a part of the trial and listen to what happens. And then the villagers can tell others in their communes.

Sarun

If I go, can I bring the biography of my brother there?

Youk

Yes.

Sarun

Because it holds the truth about my brother. I want the truth and I want someone to find out the truth about him.

Youk

The tribunal may happen in 2005, as soon as possible. If it happens, we want to meet you again and invite you to join.

Sarun

I would like to join very much.

Youk

When you join in the process, you can come back to your village and tell the villagers your story.

Pivoine

Who is in the photograph? [a small one with several people; difficult to see]

Sarun

I’m not clear about this photograph. It has some villagers who visited me when I went home to visit.

Pivoine

How about this one?

Sarun

It is a photograph of Saroeun. The other people are villagers.

Pivoine

Where was it taken?

Sarun

At a chicken coop.

Pivoine

Where was it?

Sarun

It was in my village. My brother wanted to keep it as a souvenier. I want to ask you a question: if the tribunal happens, I want to join in the process. What do they pay the victims? I say this because I suffered a lot during the Khmer Rouge so I want to speak at the tribunal to find which people are good and which are bad. And then they must pay back the victims. All the people in Kampong Cham province know my biography clearly. My brother Phen joined the revolution and he was re-educated in the forest and then he met the villagers at Prek Koy.

Pivoine

Is Prek Koy the place where Saroeun worked in the cooperative?

Sarun

Yes. The villagers told me. They said that my brother Phen was a good and gentle man with the people to the people who stayed with him. He always took care of them.

Youk

Do you know anyone who gave birth during the Khmer Rouge?

Sarun

I don’t know about this problem because I was busy studying.

Youk

Did they have midwives?

Sarun

Yes. There was a big office at Kang Meas district and Prey Chhor district. My brother Ban Sarin was in the prison and then they took his child to prison. And then they arrested his wife and child at the same time. If my brother had put in the biography that he had siblings, I would also be arrested.

Pivoine

Where did they write his biography?

Sarun

When they arrested my brother. When they arrested him, they killed him right away. They accused him of betraying the revolution.

Pivoine

What was the child’s name?

Sarun

Pheak.

Pivoine

How old was she?

Sarun

She didn’t know how to walk yet.

Pivoine

When you left Kampong Cham, did you work at Phnom Penh?

Sarun

I was confused. They arrested people and made them work as soldiers and the Vietnamese soldiers were very cruel. They forcibly took girls, so they ran away from their homes. I did too. Then the Khmer Rouge were finished. There were all kinds of problems.

Pivoine

Did you work as a dentist or midwife at Phnom Penh?

Sarun

I worked in general medicine at Phnom Penh after the liberation.

Pivoine

What year?

Sarun

Between 1976 and 1977.

Pivoine

[looking at photo 15]. Where was this photograph taken?

Sarun

At Andoung Hospital in Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

How did you know she was married?

Sarun

She visited home and brought her husband with her. But I was not at home then. I learned about it when I visited home.

Pivoine

When were the two of you separated?

Sarun

When the Thieu Ky came into my village and I ran to Phnom Penh. [this was in 1972 and 1973]

Pivoine

Do you know why she is wearing a watch?

Sarun

She was on the medical staff and they let her wear a watch.

Pivoine

How about you? Why didn’t you wear a watch? You were on the medical staff.

Sarun

I didn’t because I was a high-class student so I had no watch.

Pivoine

Do you know who is in the photograph?

Sarun

I don’t know clearly. This one is Phen. He disappeared, but I don’t have a copy to keep at my house. Someone called him to the revolution in May 1974. Then he was arrested on October 26, 1976.

Pivoine

Do you know about this one? Where was the photograph taken?

Sarun

It is  Ban Sokhom, who is living in Kampong Thom province. It was taken in Kvet Toch village.  When he was young, he lived in Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

What is happening in the photograph? [#14]

Sarun

Maybe it was in Kratie Province, but I wasn’t there.

Pivoine

[looking at #13]. Who is this?

Sarun

The children of Ban Savoeun and Saroeun.

Pivoine

Why did they die?

Sarun

My son, Ek Sethy, died when he worked as a solider after the Khmer Rouge collapsed.  

Pivoine

During the Lon Nol regime, what was the situation in your village?

Sarun

Some students rebelled and stopped studying because of the bombing. When the bombs fell, my parents were living in our village.

Pivoine

Who dropped the bombs?

Sarun

The Americans. They destroyed my house.

Pivoine

What about this house?

Sarun

I built it in 1991.

Pivoine

When Lon Nol dropped the bombs, were there a lot of problems in your village? After the Khmer Rouge liberated your village, were you happy?

Sarun

Yes. I was happy. The villagers, too. But then I thought there was another problem. When the dropped the bombs, I was in Phnom Penh.

Pivoine

When the Khmer Rouge took control, did you think they would help you?

Sarun

Yes because Lon Nol killed people and destroyed their homes. After the liberation, the people were happy, but in 1976, the people saw that some people were taken to be killed. I don’t know who. When they took them, they also took cadre to be killed. I don’t know what the Khmer Rouge were thinking.

Pivoine

What do you think about the Lon Nol and Khmer Rouge regimes?

Sarun

In the Lon Nol regime, we ran to the maquis [forest], but the Khmer Rouge sent people out to be killed. We made the revolution and liberated people. But the Khmer Rouge sent people to be killed. They cut down my siblings and they accused my brother of betraying the revolution. They sent him to prison.

Pivoine

What did you say about Yom? [the lady who told about the message from Khieu Samphan]?

Sarun

Her house is near mine. But the story is not true. She heard it from another person.  Before you and I met, my sister Sarom went to Kratie province and someone at Kratie said that Kang was sent to Tuol Sleng prison. Please help me do research about my brother’s biography and confession.

Pivoine

Why did Sarom go to Kratie?

Sarun

To buy some medicine.

Pivoine

How did she know that Kang was sent to Tuol Sleng?

Sarun

Someone said he was killed at Tuol Sleng.

Pivoine

Who said that?

Sarun

I don’t know; they said their siblings living in Phnom Penh visited Tuol Sleng. I want to go there, too, but I’m very busy.

Pivoine

Do you believe your brother was sent to Tuol Sleng?

Sarun

I don’t know, but he disappeared. I met him only one time during the Khmer Rouge Regime, and then we separated.

Pivoine

Thank you for your answer.

Parents

Ban Chhaom Ban Chhaom (father, deceased after 1979)

Hen Yin (mother)

Ban

Savoeun

Sister

Aka Von

Born 1937

Savon

Survives

Lives in Kampong Thom. Changed her name from Ban Savath to Ban Savoeun because her sister used the name Savath

7 of her 12 children have died

Ban Savath

Aka Khan

Sister

(see p. 2 of Ban Savoeun interview)

Disappeared

Sent to Prey Sar prison in 1971 or 1972, released in 1973, and went to the forest, then to Phnom Penh

Ban Saroeun
aka Kang

Kang

Brother

Executed

(born 1945)

Provincial governor, Kratie

recruited Phen and Ban Savath

Killed in Phnom Penh, 1976 or 1977

Wife: Ra (killed)

Son: Reak killed

Daughter: Nak killed

Ban Sarin

aka Phen

Brother

Photographer

Executed

born ca. 1947

Killed in Phnom Penh, 1976 or 77 at the age of 29

Wife: Yung Kim Hour,

Yong Kumuo aka Sat: killed 1976 or 77

1 daughter: Pheak: killed

Ban Sarun

aka Run

Sarun

Sister

Survives

(born 1950)

this is the lady interviewed by Pivoine in Kampong Cham

Husband: Taing Leat. Died of illness at  49 after the Khmer Rouge collapsed.

Ban Saran

Aka Lin

Sister

Disappeared

Ban Sarom
aka Rom

Sister

Survives

(born 1964)

Husband: Thiem

Deceased

Ban Sokhom

Aka Khom

Brother

Survives

Total children: 8

Three males

Five females