Interview with

Chhayrann

What is your name?

Sok Kim

I'm CHAN Sok Kim.

Chhayrann

How old are you?

Sok Kim

I'm 47 years old now.

Chhayrann

Where was your birthplace?

Sok Kim

Ror Kar Khnul 3 village, Ror Kar Khnul subdistrict, Krouch Chhmar district , Kampong Champ province

Chhayrann

What was your parent's name?

Sok Kim

Father: CHAN Srim; Mother: YANG Leng. The Khmer Rouge killed them at the river dock in 1977.

Chhayrann

Did you know the reasons they killed your parent?

Sok Kim

They accused my parent for being linked to the previous regime. My father was an assistant to the commune chief before the Khmer Rouge.

Chhayrann

When did he work as an assistant to commune chief?

Sok Kim

In 1970.

Chhayrann

How many siblings do you have?

Sok Kim

I got 7 siblings:

1)      CHAN Srieng, male. He married MEUNG You Leng, and got 4 children. He was dead during the Khmer Rouge.

2)      CHAN Neung, female, she live in this village.

3)      CHAN Leang, Female. She married PRUM Nhem (real name: TIT Sun), and got 4 sons. She was dead during the Khmer Rouge too.

4)      CHAN Thlann, male, he died at the same year with my parent.

5)      CHAN Taong Yan, male, he died while he was fighting against Lon Nol soldiers.

6)      CHAN Chhai Lim, female, she still alive.

7)      I myself CHAN Sok Kim.

Chhayrann

Do you know when did CHAN Leang marry?

Sok Kim

She married in 1967 because she got her first son in 1968.

Chhayrann

How old was she married?

Sok Kim

I don't know. I was so young.

Chhayrann

Did you join the Khmer Rouge revolution?

Sok Kim

Most of my siblings joined the Khmer Rouge, except my sister, CHAN Neung.

Chhayrann

Why didn't she join the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

Because her husband did not agree with her to join the Khmer Rouge, and they decided to stay with my parents.

Chhayrann

Who was the first join the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

It was CHAN Srieng and his wife, and CHAN Leang and her husband.

Chhayrann

Who was the next?

Sok Kim

All of them joined at the same time except me who joined later.

Chhayrann

So your siblings number 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 joined the Khmer Rouge at the same time?

Sok Kim

Yes, they joined in 1970.

Chhayrann

When did you join the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

In 1974.

Chhayrann

So why did you join later than others?

Sok Kim

Because my parent didn't allow me to join the Khmer Rouge.

Chhayrann

Were your siblings happy to join the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

They volunteered to join the Khmer Rouge.

Chhayrann

Did someone persuade them to join the revolution?

Sok Kim

I didn't know about that. But as what I knew, my brother [CHAN Srieng] worked for Khmer Rouge before 1970. He cooperated with the Khmer Rouge when he was studying until he became a teacher.

Chhayrann

Was he who persuaded your other siblings to join the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

Yes.

Chhayrann

Did he ask the permission from your parent?

Sok Kim

I didn't know about that. I knew that they all were happy to work for Khmer Rouge.

Chhayrann

Did your parents want them to join the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

Actually, they did not, especially me. But when all my older siblings joined the Khmer Rouge, so I decided to go with them in 1974.

Chhayrann

Did they want you to join with them?

Sok Kim

No, they want me to stay with my parent, but I wanted to join with them because they were studied in medicine, and I wanted to study that subject too. During that time, all the schools had been closed.

Chhayrann

When did the schools have been closed?

Sok Kim

The schools had been closed since 1970, and I was only in grand 8 at that time. I was still want to pursue my study, and eventually all my older siblings who joined the Khmer Rouge were trained in medicine, so I decided to join the Khmer Rouge because I just want to get more knowledge.

Chhayrann

What grade was your brother [CHAN Srieng] had been studied?

Sok Kim

He completed this baccalaureate during the Sihanouk regime; and he was a professor. 

Chhayrann

Where did he study?

Sok Kim

He studied in Phnom Penh.

Chhayrann

Where did he work after he completed his school?

Sok Kim

He was a teacher in Kampong Cham for 2 or 3 years. He taught at Sre Veal, Cham Kar Leu district.

Chhayrann

What grade was your sister [CHAN Leang] had been studied?

Sok Kim

He failed her baccalaureate I [this was when she would have been about 13-14 years old], and then she was engaged, so she stopped her study.

Chhayrann

What did CHAN Leang's husband do?

Sok Kim

He worked for a private company called SONITA.

Chhayrann

What did that company do?

Sok Kim

It imported the motor spare parts and tractors.

Chhayrann

Where was his birthplace?

Sok Kim

His birthplace was in Khpork village, Svay Khlaong subdistrict, Krouch Chhmar district.

Chhayrann

Did CHAN Leang join the revolution before her husband?

Sok Kim

They joined the Khmer Rouge at the same time. They were in Kampong Cham town, but after the coup d'état, they came back home and joined the Khmer Rouge together.

Chhayrann

Were there many people in this village joined the Khmer Rouge with her?

Sok Kim

Yes, there were many youths in this village joined the Khmer Rouge.

Chhayrann

Where did she do at the first time she joined the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

First time, she worked at zone 304, which located at the other bank of the Mekong river. She was the subdistrict chief.

Chhayrann

Did she work together with her husband?

Sok Kim

Yes, she did.

Chhayrann

What did her husband do after joined the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

He worked for subdistrict office, later he was promoted to work at district office, and he worked as a Khmer Rouge soldier in 1974. I was there at that year, and knew that he worked as a special soldier.

Chhayrann

What did she do after next?

Sok Kim

She was moved to work as village chief at Chamkar Leu district; and her husband had been moved to there too. And after the liberation day 1975, they moved to work at Kampong Soam.

Chhayrann

Did she ever come to visit her homeland?

Sok Kim

She often came to visit home in 1974 because one of her sons stayed with my parent.

Chhayrann

So how many children did she have when she worked at Chamkar Leu district?

Sok Kim

She got 3 sons, and one of them stayed here with my parent. She kept her second son here.

Chhayrann

Why didn't she take him along with her?

Sok Kim

Because he was so young, and he would interrupt her works.

Chhayrann

Did she say anything when she came home?

Sok Kim

No, she didn't. She came home just for visiting her son.

Chhayrann

How many days did she stay at home?

Sok Kim

Just a day.

Chhayrann

Did she come home along with her husband?

Sok Kim

Yes.

Chhayrann

How did she come here?

Sok Kim

By motorcycle.

Chhayrann

Did she or her husband have a pistol?

Sok Kim

No.

Chhayrann

After your sister and her husband were moved to Kampong Soam, so where did you live?

Sok Kim

I stayed with them.

Chhayrann

Since that day, did she come home again?

Sok Kim

No, she did not come home again.

Chhayrann

Did you keep staying along with her?

Sok Kim

I stayed with her until we were moved to Phnom Penh in 1976.

Chhayrann

Did the Khmer Rouge move all her families to Phnom Penh?

Sok Kim

Yes.

Chhayrann

How about you?

Sok Kim

I came to Phnom Penh with her.

Chhayrann

Where did you stay in Phnom Penh?

Sok Kim

I stayed at O-Reu-Sey; later her husband moved to work at Psa Chas, and my sister [Leang] still worked at O-Reu-Sey. [different parts of Phnom Penh]

Chhayrann

Didn't you all stay together?

Sok Kim

No. I stayed with her just for a short while. Later, we were separated, my brother-in-law was sent to work at Psa Chas, my sister worked at O-Reu-Sey; and I was moved to work at Psa Chas at cooking unit.

Chhayrann

Related to these four photos, were you there when they taken these photos?

Sok Kim

I was in Kapong Soam. This photo was taken at sewing unit of the brewery; and I worked at medical center, which was located on the peak of a mountain [called Choak Ta Nhean pagoda], it was the laboratory center during the Khmer Rouge.

Chhayrann

Did she tell you why she took these photos?

Sok Kim

No, she did not tell me anything. She was taken these photos because her husband's messenger Hy, looted the camera while the Phnom Penh collapsed in 1975.

Chhayrann

Did she take many photographs?

Sok Kim

Yes, she did. She took the photo with her workmates.

Chhayrann

About your own photo, who took it?

Sok Kim

It was Hy, the same.

Chhayrann

Were these photos taken at the same time?

Sok Kim

No. I took in 1976, and her photo taken in 1975.

Chhayrann

So that mean you were moved to Phnom Penh?

Sok Kim

Yes. Hy came along with us.

Chhayrann

How can the Khmer Rouge allow Hy to use the camera?

Sok Kim

Because we were in the high position.

Chhayrann

What was your sister's position?

Sok Kim

She was the sewing committee, and my brother-in-law worked at commercial unit.

Chhayrann

How can he get the film?

Sok Kim

Eventually, a man there knew how to develop the films.

Chhayrann

What was his name?

Sok Kim

I didn't know him clearly, but he was so old.

Chhayrann

Why did you take the photo?

Sok Kim

Just for fun. I was taken a few photographs, but I lost them.

Chhayrann

How old were you taken this photo?

Sok Kim

I was 18.

Chhayrann

Did you marry yet?

Sok Kim

Not yet.

Chhayrann

For this photo, do you know where the photo had been taken?

Sok Kim

I don't know.

Chhayrann

Did you know why they took this photo?

Sok Kim

No.

Chhayrann

How can you get all these photos with you?

Sok Kim

I collected them when I stayed with her.

Chhayrann

Did she ask you for keeping these photos?

Sok Kim

No, but she used to send them to my parent. My parent used to come to visit her once in Kampong Soam, and she gave her photos to them.

Chhayrann

How many photos did she give to your parent?

Sok Kim

Oh! I confuse. This photo I got from my relatives who stay in Khpouk village. They gave it to me when I came back home after the Khmer Rouge.

Chhayrann

So that mean this photo was taken in Khpouk village?

Sok Kim

No.

Chhayrann

So you are not keep this photo?

Sok Kim

Yes. I kept only my own photographs.

Chhayrann

For this photo, she took the photo at Kampong Soam, was she pregnant?

Sok Kim

Yes. She was pregnant her fourth son; and she delivered her son in Phnom Penh, 1976.

Chhayrann

After being moved to Phnom Penh, when did you lose her words?

Sok Kim

She was arrested in the end of 1976.

Chhayrann

Were you sure that she was arrested?

Sok Kim

Yes.

Chhayrann

How can you know that?

Sok Kim

Because the Khmer Rouge held a trying meeting that she and her husband had been betrayed the nation, being linked to the CIA; Vietnamese; or American. They accused me that my sister and her husband was hidden enemy; and wanted to revolt the country.

Chhayrann

Where did they hold the trying meeting?

Sok Kim

They held a meeting at Psa Chas, but I didn't join the meeting, I just heard from the participants.  Later, I was criticized for many times. They insulted me that being related to my sister who linked to KGB, and my brother-in-law who linked to CIA. They criticized me because they wanted me to improve myself, unless I would be sent to reeducation camp.

Chhayrann

Among your sister and her husband, which one of them were first arrested?

Sok Kim

Her husband [Prum Nhem] was arrested first.

Chhayrann

Where was he arrested?

Sok Kim

He was arrested at the meal hall at Psa Chas. I didn't witness he was arrested by my eye, but he just informed me that the Angkar called him, and then he disappeared.

Chhayrann

So you met him before he was arrested?

Sok Kim

Yes.

Chhayrann

Did he advise you something?

Sok Kim

No. He just carried his third son, and he told me that he had to go because the Angkar called him. He was sent to China a month, and after he came back for 6 or 7 days, he was arrested.

Chhayrann

Did your sister [CHAN Leang] arrest immediately after her husband?

Sok Kim

About 2 months later, my sister was arrested.

Chhayrann

Did you know the place that both of them had been sent?

Sok Kim

I didn't know.

Chhayrann

How about her children?

Sok Kim

Her first and second sons worked for the children unit at Tuol Kork, and the others two sons stayed with her. [one of the two who worked in the children’s unit is still alive]

Chhayrann

Did the Khmer Rouge arrest her two sons who stayed with her?

Sok Kim

Yes, they did.

Chhayrann

When she moved to Kampong Soam, did she take all her children there?

Sok Kim

At that time, her second son stayed with my parent; and then my parent were invited to visit her at Kampong Soam, so she asked for keeping her son there.

Chhayrann

How can your parent allowed to go to Kampong Soam?

Sok Kim

My sister sent her subordinators to pick them up from home.

Chhayrann

What kind of mean to take them to Kampong Soam?

Sok Kim

By boat. They went to Kampong Soam just only once in 1975, and once time in Phnom Penh in 1976.

Chhayrann

How long did they stay for each visiting?

Sok Kim

For 2 or 3 days.

Chhayrann

After you knew that your sister and brother-in-law had been arrested, did it effect to your post?

Sok Kim

I was a cooker before they were arrested. Later on, the Khmer Rouge did not truth me, they were afraid that I would put the poison into their foods [this just what I thought by myself], and then I was sent to work at mobile unit.

Chhayrann

Where was the mobile unit you work for?

Sok Kim

The mobile unit at Psa Chas. My mobile unit belonged to commercial unit. I was responsible for selecting the good productions like beans, sesames, and to peeled the kapok fruits to get cottons [fibers].

Chhayrann

Did you feel nervous all the time?

Sok Kim

I felt so nervously... because my group chiefs and unit chiefs were disappeared. For me I didn't have a high position, I was just a member staff, but I linked to my sister who had a high position.

Chhayrann

How was your work before your sister was arrested?

Sok Kim

I worked as a cooker.

Chhayrann

Was it a heavy work?

Sok Kim

It was not a hard labor. I had to cook in the morning, and then cleaned up the plates.

Chhayrann

How about the foods?

Sok Kim

It was normally.

Chhayrann

What was different after your sister and her husband were arrested?

Sok Kim

It was a bid hard when I was moved to work at mobile unit. I got a half of bread, and soup with no meats, so I became debilitation.

Chhayrann

Did the Khmer Rouge often criticize you?

Sok Kim

Yes, they did. They looked at me as their enemy.

Chhayrann

Did you recognize your workmate's behaviors after your sister was arrested?

Sok Kim

They all disliked me, and not so talk to me. I was so isolation. I was always inferior them.

Chhayrann

Who criticized you?

Sok Kim

My group chief.

Chhayrann

Do you still remember the name?

Sok Kim

No. My group chief was arrested as well.

Chhayrann

Did you argue back to them when you were criticizing?

Sok Kim

No, I just accepted my mistakes.

Chhayrann

What did you say?

Sok Kim

I said, I did not know anything; and I confessed that I accepted all my previous mistakes.

Chhayrann

Did you ever make biographies?

Sok Kim

No, they just asked me some questions.

Chhayrann

What did they ask you about?

Sok Kim

They asked me where were you born, my siblings' names.

Chhayrann

Where did they send you next?

Sok Kim

I was sent to Pech Nil as railway worker.

Chhayrann

Were your workmates still discriminate with you?

Sok Kim

No. Most of the workers at Pech Nil were the prisoners.

Chhayrann

Did they still criticize you?

Sok Kim

They did not criticize about me anymore, but about the works. They criticized that we worked not so hard. All the prisoners who were sent to Pech Nil were eastern zone, and we were accused that linked to the Vietnamese network.

Chhayrann

What happened next?

Sok Kim

During the Vietnamese troops took over the country, the Khmer Rouge evacuated me to Moang, Battambang province that close to the Cambodian-Thai border, and they had a plan to evacuate the people to Thailand, but eventually, the Vietnamese troops launched offensively to take Koh Kra Lor, so the Khmer Rouge evacuated us to cooperative. There were many people were killed there.

Chhayrann

Killed after the 1979?

Sok Kim

Yes. I tried to escape from that cooperative. I met with Khmer soldiers, and they told me to come to my own village. I walked a long way to home through national road Nº5.

Chhayrann

How many days did you walk to home?

Sok Kim

I walked about a half month to reach my homeland. I was so scare with the Vietnamese soldiers along the way back home because the Khmer Rouge always informed us that the Vietnamese soldiers would shot us to dead when they saw the people who wear the black cloth; but in fact, they didn't.

Chhayrann

Did someone tell you about your siblings when you reached your homeland?

Sok Kim

When I reached Khpouk, my brother-in-law birth's siblings told me that my parent were already executed; I was so exhausted when I heard that, so I stayed there for a night; and next day morning, I went through to my homeland, but I didn't go to my parent's house because I felt so regret them and I was so stunned.

Chhayrann

How can you know that your parent was executed in 1977?

Sok Kim

I knew from my sister [CHAN Chai Lim] who stayed in this village.

Chhayrann

Why your sister was not arrested?

Sok Kim

Because she was not in the black list.

Chhayrann

Did she evacuate to somewhere?

Sok Kim

No. She asked the Khmer Rouge to go along with my parent [she did not know her parents were going to be executed], but her husband did not allow her, so she just took my parent to the dock.

Chhayrann

How many of your siblings who joined the Khmer Rouge and still alive?

Sok Kim

Only me and CHAN Chai Lim who still survive after joining the Khmer Rouge revolution.

Chhayrann

What about CHAN Thlann, why did he die during the Khmer Rouge?

Sok Kim

He was executed here in 1977. He escaped from Kampong Thom to here when he knew that my sister had been arrested.

Chhayrann

How can he know that your sister was arrested?

Sok Kim

He knew because the Khmer Rouge kept following him; so he escaped to this village.

Chhayrann

What did he do during that time?

Sok Kim

He dug the canal near Baray, Kampong Thom province.

Chhayrann

Where was he taken to, after he was arrested?

Sok Kim

He was killed at the dock, that not far away from here.

Chhayrann

What about CHAN Taong Yan, how did he die?

Sok Kim

He died while he was fighting against Lon Nol soldiers. He died at the front line.

Chhayrann

How do you feel about the death of your siblings who served for the Khmer Rouge revolution?

Sok Kim

I was so regret that the Khmer Rouge cheated me. I sacrificed all my properties; my happiness with my parent to served the Khmer Rouge because I expected that I would liberate the country to be prosperity. But at the end, they killed most of my siblings, including my parents.

Chhayrann

For you own feeling, how could repay for your being cheated?

Sok Kim

I want your center find a justice for them. As I knew, they did not betray the nation, and why they were killed. I'm so regret about his patriot spirit. I want to seek for justice for all my siblings who died, I want to know what did they commit the mistakes? And why the Khmer Rouge killed them?

Chhayrann

Did you know about the up coming Khmer Rouge tribunal?

Sok Kim

I heard it for long time, but I didn't see any of Khmer Rouge has been sentenced.

Chhayrann

Do you support this court?

Sok Kim

Yes, I do.

Chhayrann

Do you think that we have to try only the leaders or lower ranking officials?

Sok Kim

I think the leaders who adopted the law to kill the people.

Chhayrann

Did you ever tell your story during the Khmer Rouge to your children?

Sok Kim

Yes, I did, but some of them did not believe me.

Chhayrann

So what did you do to make them believe you?

Sok Kim

They believed me when they studied a Khmer Rouge chapter at school.

Chhayrann

Do you think that it is important to share that story to the children?

Sok Kim

I think it's important to memorize, and they would not repeat this bad history again.

Chhayrann

Do you want to add more information?

Sok Kim

No.

Chhayrann

Thanks you for your spending time with us.