|
Interview with Khvan Sichan |
|
Dany |
What is your name? |
|
Khvan |
Khvan Sichan |
|
Dany |
How
old are you? |
|
Khvan |
53 |
|
Dany |
Where were you born? |
|
Khvan |
Phum 3 Village, Rokar Khnor subdistrict, Krauch Chhnar
district, Kampong Cham province |
|
Dany |
Now
where are you living? |
|
Khvan |
Village 3 |
|
Dany |
What is your husband’s name? |
|
Khvan |
Thou Sarat. |
|
Dany |
Where is he living now? |
|
Khvan |
He
disappeared during the Khmer Rouge regime. |
|
Dany |
When did he disappear? |
|
Khvan |
In
the evening of 6 January 1979 [the day before the Vietnamese
invaded] |
|
Dany |
Just before the day the Khmer Rouge collapsed? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, in the evening, maybe around 4 p.m. |
|
Dany |
Where did you separate from him? |
|
Khvan |
At
Calmette Hospital in Phnom Penh. In that time, it was called
P-1 [a Khmer Rouge office] |
|
Dany |
How
many children do you have? |
|
Khvan |
Three. The first was Vong Leap. She died when she was 5
years old. The second was Vong Lon. She lived through the
regime. She was 4 years old during the regime. The third is
Vong Vet; she is still alive. She was 1 year old during the
regime. [Regime is when the Khmer Rouge first took power].
|
|
Dany |
Now, how many of your children are still alive? |
|
Khvan |
Only one. Now she lives in Taiwan. She has a husband there.
|
|
Dany |
What is her name? |
|
Khvan |
Vong Vet. |
|
Dany |
And
what about Vong Lon? |
|
Khvan |
She
is dead now. |
|
Dany |
When did she die? |
|
Khvan |
She
died in 1990 when she was 19 years old. She died from an
illness. |
|
Dany |
And
now, what do you do? |
|
Khvan |
Now
I am retired. But before my daughter married, I was a
farmer. |
|
Dany |
When did you retire? |
|
Khvan |
In
1997. In addition to being a farmer, I sold sweet fermented
fish in the market. I also made cakes. |
|
Dany |
What were your parents’ names? |
|
Khvan |
My
father was Khvan Lak and my mother was Dy Seng. |
|
Dany |
Are
they still alive? |
|
Khvan |
They are deceased. |
|
Dany |
When did they die? |
|
Khvan |
My
mother died in 1975 from illness, and my father died in
1991, also from illness. |
|
Dany |
How
many siblings did you have? |
|
Khvan |
Five. The first was Khvan Kdaing (male), the second was
Khvan Mao (male), the third was me, the fourth was Khvan Kim
Song (male), and the last was Khvan Kin Lyn (female). She is
still alive. |
|
Dany |
Are
they still alive? |
|
Khvan |
My
eldest brother died after 1980, around 1982 or 1983; he died
of illness. The others are still alive. |
|
Dany |
When you were are a child, how much education did you have? |
|
Khvan |
I
learned literature. I finished grade 7. I wanted to study
more, but there was no one at home to help my parents, so I
had to quit. But before I gave up my studies, I took my
examination. I passed. I expected that I would pass. |
|
Dany |
What were the subjects of your examination? |
|
Khvan |
To
get into college. I took the examination at Krauch Chhnar. |
|
Dany |
During that time, what school did you study at? |
|
Khvan |
At
Rokar Khnor. |
|
Dany |
When did you stop studying? |
|
Khvan |
In
1967. |
|
Dany |
After you stopped studying, where did you go? |
|
Khvan |
I
came back home. I helped my father with plowing and tilling
the farm. My father owned the farm. My three brothers had
already left home. My first brother studied in Phnom Penh.
My second brother was a monk, and my third was also a monk.
So, I had to help my father. I am a woman, but I worked like
a man. I plowed and raked, and rowed a boat. Until 1972, my
cousin-in-law sent his nephew to study medicine because they
had a medical school at Rokar Khnor. So, he asked my mother
to let me study too. When I had studied for five months, the
Angkar sent me outside the district to work. They assigned
me to work in the region office. They sent me to a place
that produced vaccinations at PH-2 at Sre Spey in O’Reang Ov
district in Kampong Cham. I stayed there until Phnom Penh
fell to the Khmer Rouge.
Everyone who worked at Sre Spey was sent to Chrauy Changvar
in Phnom Penh. It had been a French hospital called Pasteur.
At the hospital, they made vaccines to protect people
against cholera and typhoid.
Between 1975 and 1977, but I don’t know the exact month, I
was called for a meeting with people from the Eastern Zone.
They told us to prepare to move the hospital. After the
meeting, they gave us one hour to move. They had a small
boat that was waiting for us across the river from in Sre
Spey. When the boat reached Phnom Penh, there was a car
waiting for us. They put us in the car and dropped us at
Building 100 (the CPC building). In the morning, there was
a meeting at this building. They told us that we would work
at the factory that produced vaccinations. They told us
that, but in truth, they gave us rakes to farming. I worked
on the harvest for one season. The next harvest season, when
we were transplanting rice seedlings, suddenly, someone told
us that a car was waiting for us. The car had 12 seats. They
called the people who worked in PH-2 that we had to move to
a new place.
Everyone but me and one person that I worked with – Ho –
moved. Two or three months before we moved, they sent my
husband and nine other people to P-1 hospital (Calmette).
They kept me so that I could live together with my husband.
They sent me there, too.
After I had been there for one month, my daughter died.
|
|
Dany |
What was your dead daughter’s name? |
|
Khvan |
Leap. She died from illness in September 1975. Three months
later, Angkar told us to leave Phnom Penh. I don’t know
what day it was exactly. My neighbor from the countryside
asked me, “You really don’t know?” I told him that I didn’t
know. When we stayed in Phnom Penh, it was like being in
prison. All the time we had to work. When we finished, I was
able to return to my husband and stay with him. We had
different targets. That’s why I didn’t know the day.
1979
When I was working, a boy told me that I should pack my
luggage because he saw all the older people but me packing
their things. So, I went to meet my husband and hold him to
go home now and see if other people were packing. So, when
he reached home, he learned that the boy was telling the
truth and he began packing. When I finished my work, and was
on my way home, I saw the medical staff moving their bags
and putting them into cars. So, I walked home fast. When I
got there, I saw that my husband had put the luggage
downstairs. I wanted to make sure that he had packed
everything.
When I came downstairs, my husband had disappeared. I asked
the neighbors “Where is my husband?” They said someone had
called him to bring merchandise from the warehouse and put
it on the train. Then, many people who had packed their
luggage were standing in front of the house waiting for
someone to pick them up and bring them to the train station.
My
second daughter was staying at the children’s unit at that
time. I had someone bring her to me. When they arrived with
my daughter, I brought her with me. But my husband didn’t
know that I had my daughter with me. I didn’t know whether
he knew or not. Around 6 in the evening, the train departed.
It stopped Romeas Station in the countryside. We slept there
for 2 or 3 days. Then, there was the sound of a loud
explosion. Perhaps it was in Phnom Penh. Someone said that
the tracks were not working and the train could not move.
Later, we reached Battambang Station. We stopped there and
someone said that the Vietnamese were coming. I was sad that
my husband and I were separated.
At
that time, I was thinking that Cambodia was at war again. I
didn’t know what would happen next to my children and me.
Later, we left Battambang and reached the Thmar Kol station;
we stopped there. We stayed there for one night. On that
night, there was an explosion in back of our carriage. Many
children were killed. After that, the Angkar made us get
into cars and we left there on the same night. I sat in the
front seat. Then someone pointed a gun at the driver and
told the car to stop. The person talked with the driver and
they reached an agreement. We moved on.
That night, we slept at Bavel Hospital. The next morning,
they did not let us get into the car. Instead, they had us
walk. When we walked, I carried the luggage on my shoulder
and my head. We stopped in the middle of a field. We stayed
at a cooperative; they cooked and boiled water for us. We
ate there. After two or three nights, one evening someone
told us that because we were medical staff, we would travel
again. They told me that because I had a daughter, I would
not go. Only the single people would leave. But I wanted to
leave. So, I went later with my daughters.]
The
people who went first walked into the forest. But my two
daughters and I went into the middle of the field and stayed
there. Suddenly, I met a group of handicapped people. They
had an oxcart. So, I asked them if I could put my bag into
the cart. I then put my two daughters onto the oxcart and
hugged the smaller one.
Everyone was trying to flee, so I took my two daughters and
started walking. We were all in a line. So, I asked some
people to help me. Someone offered to help by carrying my
smaller daughter. When we came to a village, a man walked up
to the middle of the line of people and told us to stop. The
rest went on. My younger daughter was with the people in the
front of the line, so she went on with those people. So,
that night, I slept with my older daughter.
The
next day, I was afraid that I would not be able to find my
smaller daughter. Near sunrise, I went out to look for her.
I felt pity for my daughter. I found her. I asked the people
who cared for her whether she had cried or not. They said
she had been ok because there was a soldier with a hammock
who let her sleep there. The soldier slept on the ground.
So, I took my daughter and we went on. |
|
Dany |
You
said that in 1972, you had a cousin-in-law who asked if you
could study medicine. How many people studied with you? |
|
Khvan |
At
that time, there were two people from my village who went to
study. But when we studied medicine, there were nearly 100
pupils. |
|
Dany |
What was the place called where you studied? |
|
Khvan |
They called it the regional hospital. |
|
Dany |
What region? |
|
Khvan |
Eastern. |
|
Dany |
Where? |
|
Khvan |
At
Phum 3. |
|
Dany |
So,
was the school near your house? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
At
that time, did many people from your village study medicine? |
|
Khvan |
No.
They collected them from the subdistrict and district. Each
subdistrict had two or three people who came there to learn
medicine. |
|
Dany |
Were there requirements for you to study medicine? |
|
Khvan |
No.
My cousin-in-law just wanted us to study medicine. And we
understood that we would be able to work in the district
office. He didn’t ask me; he asked my mother while I was
sitting weaving a blanket. My mother agreed and let me go
study. I liked this subject too, and wanted to learn it. |
|
Dany |
Do
you remember the date in 1972? |
|
Khvan |
No.
I just remember the year. |
|
Dany |
Who
asked your mother to let you study? |
|
Khvan |
My
cousin-in-law. His name was Hak Chhun Kry. |
|
Dany |
At
this time, what did he do? |
|
Khvan |
He
was deputy chief of the district. |
|
Dany |
Which district? |
|
Khvan |
Rokar Khnor |
|
Dany |
What was your training? |
|
Khvan |
At
first we learned basic diseases like malaria. We learned the
basic symptoms of malaria and fever, and what caused them.
We also learned how to cure these diseases. We cured
diseases using medicine. This medicine can make us better
from fever. |
|
Dany |
And
when you studied, who was your chief in the hospital? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t remember, but I know that the chief who took
attendance was named Sam On. The chief of the Eastern
hospital was named Chan Chhoeung. |
|
Dany |
Was
Sam on a male or female? |
|
Khvan |
Male. |
|
Dany |
After your training was finished, did they assign to you
work at this village? |
|
Khvan |
No.
After I learned for 5 months, they assigned me to work in
the region. I walked to Bos Svay in Chhouk subdistrict after
I was assigned. I reached there at night and on that night,
I saw with the nephew of my cousin-in-law. We had dinner
together. Suddenly, they assigned us to separate places; one
of us went east and one west. They assigned me to work on
vaccines. |
|
Dany |
Do
you know when you were sent away to work? |
|
Khvan |
In
1972. |
|
Dany |
What was the cousin-in-law’s name? |
|
Khvan |
Hor
Somealea. We were the same age. |
|
Dany |
How
old were you? |
|
Khvan |
19
or 20. |
|
Dany |
So,
when they assigned you to work on vaccinations, where did
they send you? |
|
Khvan |
At
PH-2. |
|
Dany |
At
Sre Spey? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
Did
they manufacture medicines in that place? |
|
Khvan |
They produced vaccines, not other medicines. I worked making
vaccines. |
|
Dany |
How
did you produce the vaccines? |
|
Khvan |
I
made vaccines against cholera and typhoid. We made cultures
of these diseases. It took 18-20 hours. Then we changed
their food and brought them to another lab. The cultures
changed their formation within a week. We had another group
that made the food. The others made vaccines against
diseases like smallpox and cowpox. |
|
Dany |
What did you culture these diseases from? |
|
Khvan |
We
took them from Vietnam. We had teachers from Vietnam. |
|
Dany |
What were the teachers’ names? |
|
Khvan |
The
man was named Ngog; the women were named sister Mai, sister
Nga, sister Tam, and sister Sao. Nga and Mai always stayed
in the hospital. Tam and Sao came and went. |
|
Dany |
How
long did you work in the vaccine factory? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t remember when I began, but I remember that at the end
of 1972, we were sent to Sre Spey. |
|
Dany |
When you worked in the vaccine factory, what was the chief’s
name? |
|
Khvan |
The
first one was named Ta Heng. |
|
Dany |
Where was he from? |
|
Khvan |
The
Northern Zone. |
|
Dany |
Was
he Cambodian? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, but they called him The Northern Zone. Later, they took
him away. They put a man named Sovann in his place. |
|
Dany |
Where did they take him? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t know. They removed him from his position. But before,
Sovann was the deputy chief. |
|
Dany |
When did they take Ta Heng and promote Sovann to chief? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe in early 1974 or the end of 1973. |
|
Dany |
In
PH-2? Did this place produce only vaccine or something else? |
|
Khvan |
Yes; it produced capsules against, cholera, typhoid. |
|
Dany |
And
Sovann managed all of this? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, because he was the chief of this office. |
|
Dany |
Do
you know who was the chief of the Eastern Zone then? |
|
Khvan |
I
heard that his name was Sao Phim, but I never saw him. |
|
Dany |
Did
the Vietnamese teach you themselves? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
Could you speak Vietnamese? |
|
Khvan |
No.
I didn’t want to learn it. |
|
Dany |
How
long did the Vietnamese teach you? |
|
Khvan |
Until 1973. Then they went back to Vietnam. By 1973, we
could produce them by ourselves, but there was one thing
that we could not do: determine the level of virus in the
body. |
|
Dany |
Did
you stay at this hospital until 1975? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, until April 1975. |
|
Dany |
After that, where were you sent? |
|
Khvan |
I
moved to Pasteur hospital in Phnom Penh. When we arrived
there, I stayed in the same job. But Pasteur was more modern
that the other place [Sre Spey]. At the old place, I had to
build a fire to boil water; at Pasteur, I could use
electricity. In Sre Spey, the room was covered with cloth so
that the wind could not come in and carry the viruses out.
We used 5% phamol water to kill the viruses.
|
|
Dany |
When you moved from Sre Spey to Pasteur, were most of the
people moved with you, or only some? |
|
Khvan |
All. |
|
Dany |
Do
you know when they made you move? |
|
Khvan |
No,
but maybe when the Khmer Rouge took over. |
|
Dany |
You
said that before, you worked at the Eastern Zone. When you
transferred to Pasteur, was it used as a Party central
headquarters? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
How
many people were at Pasteur? |
|
Khvan |
Over 100. |
|
Dany |
Who
was the chief there? |
|
Khvan |
Sim
Van. We called him Van. |
|
Dany |
How
different were Pasteur and PH-2? |
|
Khvan |
They weren’t very different. But in Sre Spey and PH-2 we had
antiquated equipment. |
|
Dany |
Was
it only Cambodians working at Pasteur, or were there
foreigners? |
|
Khvan |
All
Cambodians. The Vietnamese worked there until 1973.
|
|
Dany |
When you arrived in Phnom Penh, was the hospital all
Cambodians? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, we could do things by ourselves. |
|
Dany |
And
when you came to Phnom Penh, was there a ceremony for the
anniversary of the Communist Party? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. We had a meeting. |
|
Dany |
Where? |
|
Khvan |
At
our office. Once, I went to greet foreigners who arrived at
the airport from Cuba. |
|
Dany |
Where did you greet the Cubans? |
|
Khvan |
At
the Chatamouk theatre |
|
Dany |
When did you greet the foreigners? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe in 1976. |
|
Dany |
What did they tell you to do? |
|
Khvan |
That sent us to Phnom Penh to greet them when they came
there. We went to the Ministry near Central Market. But now
I don’t know this place. When we entered the ministry, we
changed our clothes. They gave us black skirts to wear. And
Cambodian silk to wear on top. |
|
Dany |
What about the shirt? |
|
Khvan |
They were many colors and had long sleeves. |
|
Dany |
Which colors? |
|
Khvan |
A
lot of colors. |
|
Dany |
What ministry was it? |
|
Khvan |
Welfare. |
|
Dany |
And
for the men? |
|
Khvan |
They changed their clothes and wore white shirts.
|
|
Dany |
Where did these people come from? |
|
Khvan |
They came from Sre Spey (they worked in the hospital) and
all the men wore the same thing. |
|
Dany |
After you changed your clothes again, what happened? |
|
Khvan |
Some people stayed outside to greet the foreigners; others
went into the theatre. I went into the theatre. I was in the
second tier. When the foreigners came in, we sang and had
plays. After we finished, we left. |
|
Dany |
When you greeted the foreigners, were you able to see their
faces clearly? |
|
Khvan |
It
was night; I couldn’t see them clearly; we just saw the
Cubans coming. There were maybe three of them; they had
white hair. |
|
Dany |
What were their ages? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe over 50. |
|
Dany |
What about their Cambodian escorts? Did you know them? |
|
Khvan |
No. |
|
Dany |
While in Chatamouk Theater, what did the Khmer Rouge leaders
talk about? |
|
Khvan |
They didn’t say anything. When they sat, we played Khmer
Rouge arts. |
|
Dany |
What games did they play? |
|
Khvan |
They played the chhayam [drums] and gongs. They
played “Name that Tune.” |
|
Dany |
What songs did they sing? |
|
Khvan |
I
could sing them then, but I’ve forgotten them. |
|
Dany |
What songs can you sing now? |
|
Khvan |
It
was a long time ago; I forgot. At that time, I often sang
those songs. But now, when I remember the regime, I want to
forget the songs. I do know a little bit of one song, The
Brave Messenger…. |
|
Dany |
What do you remember? |
|
Khvan |
The
brave messenger is never afraid…. I forgot. |
|
Dany |
After they played the drums, what was next? |
|
Khvan |
They adjourned the meeting. |
|
Dany |
After they adjourned the meeting, where did you go? |
|
Khvan |
We
came back to our office and changed our clothes. |
|
Dany |
You
changed into your black clothes? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
What was the name of the chief of the Welfare Ministry? |
|
Khvan |
Ieng Thirith [Ieng Sary’s wife] aka Phea. |
|
Dany |
Did
you ever see here? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. I saw here when we had a meeting. |
|
Dany |
What was her appearance? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t remember, but I know that she told us to work hard and
work for Angkar, and she never accused us. |
|
Dany |
Did
she attend often? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe four or five times. |
|
Dany |
When? |
|
Khvan |
When I was there. One year she went once or twice. When I
was there, I saw her attend meetings about twice per year.
|
|
Dany |
What year(s)? |
|
Khvan |
1975 until the end of 1977. At the end of 1977, they sent me
from Chrauy Changvar to CPC, where I worked as a farmer
[both in Phnom Penh]. |
|
Dany |
What is CPC? |
|
Khvan |
The
place that produced medicines. |
|
Dany |
When they sent you to CPC, what did the chief cadre say?
|
|
Khvan |
He
didn’t say anything. But, during this time, they changed the
chief of this office. After Sovann came another man, but I
don’t know his name. Ieng Tirith’s daughter was the deputy
chief. |
|
Dany |
Where? |
|
Khvan |
She
was deputy chief at Chrauy Changvar. |
|
Dany |
What was her name? |
|
Khvan |
Neath. |
|
Dany |
How
old was she? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe under 20. |
|
Dany |
When they took Sovann, when was Neath appointed? |
|
Khvan |
Just after; they made her deputy chief. |
|
Dany |
So,
when they moved you from Chrauy Changvar, did everyone else
go, too? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, all. They called us the Eastern Zone. All people from
the Eastern Zone were moved. |
|
Dany |
What about Neath, was she moved, too? |
|
Khvan |
No.
She was a chief at Chrauy Changvar. |
|
Dany |
What was the name of the chief of CPC? |
|
Khvan |
I
forgot. [But she looked in the biography and saw his name
was Von.] |
|
Dany |
How
long did you farm? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t remember the dates, but I farmed for two harvests. I
worked at CPC. While I worked at CPC, I was pregnant with my
youngest daughter. So, they didn’t make me harvest; instead,
I worked as a cook. |
|
Dany |
After you worked at CPC, where did you go? |
|
Khvan |
After CPC, they moved everyone from old PH-2 except me and
my friend. They allowed me to stay with my husband.
|
|
Dany |
When they moved you in CPC, did your husband work with you? |
|
Khvan |
Yes |
|
Dany |
And
after that, they removed you to P-1? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
How
long were you there? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe 5 months. |
|
Dany |
When did you get married? |
|
Khvan |
In
1973. |
|
Dany |
Do
you mean that you married before the Khmer Rouge took over? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. When the Khmer Rouge came to power, I had two children. |
|
Dany |
When you got married, did you love each other? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. But I didn’t know whether he loved me. He asked me to
get married by the group chief. After that, the group chief
called us to ask whether we agreed to get married. We
agreed. He did not force me to marry. On that day, two
couples were married. |
|
Dany |
What were the other couple’s names? |
|
Khvan |
The
man was named Sophat and the woman was Sokha. |
|
Dany |
When you got married, did you have a traditional Khmer
ceremony? |
|
Khvan |
No.
But they allowed us to call my parents to come. But they did
not come because they were too old. They sent my brother to
act on their behalf. |
|
Dany |
Why
didn’t you have a traditional wedding? |
|
Khvan |
Because we were in a Khmer Rouge unit, and they didn’t let
us. But for the base people or cooperatives, they let them
have traditional weddings. [she was a base person, but was
already in a unit, this is why] |
|
Dany |
At
that time, had the Eastern Zone taken over your village? |
|
Khvan |
The
Khmer Rouge controlled it. |
|
Dany |
Were there any Lon Nol soldiers in your village? |
|
Khvan |
No. |
|
Dany |
In
1973, you said that two couples were married at the same
time. |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
Do
you remember the date? |
|
Khvan |
I
forgot. |
|
Dany |
Do
you think it was early or late in the month? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe the end of the month because the rainy season was
almost over. |
|
Dany |
What was your husband’s name? |
|
Khvan |
Thou Sarat. |
|
Dany |
Where was he from? |
|
Khvan |
Prey Veng in Khnay village, Takay subdistrict, Prey Veng
district and province. |
|
Dany |
What was his occupation? |
|
Khvan |
He
worked with my group. |
|
Dany |
Do
you mean he worked with you to produce vaccines? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
Did
you know each other well before you were married? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t know. |
|
Dany |
When you had a meeting, were you able to talk with each
other [her husband was the deputy chief]? |
|
Khvan |
He
wasn’t able to talk with me because he was a deputy chief.
When the chief wasn’t able to attend, he would send his
deputy. He wasn’t able to show others that he loved me. |
|
Dany |
At
that time, did you have any photos taken? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, I took one with my friend. But now the photos have been
lost. I had a photo taken with my husband, too. |
|
Dany |
When was the photo taken with your friend? |
|
Khvan |
Before I was married. It was taken at O’Reang Ov.
|
|
Dany |
Who
took this photo? |
|
Khvan |
Just a private photographer. |
|
Dany |
What was his name? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t know. |
|
Dany |
When you took the photograph, what were you wearing? |
|
Khvan |
Black. |
|
Dany |
Where was it taken? |
|
Khvan |
It
was taken in a house near the O’Reang Ov market. |
|
Dany |
What was the name of the other person in the photograph? |
|
Khvan |
Samhy, my neighbor. We lived in the same subdistrict, but
different villages. She lived in Phum 7 and I lived in Phum
3. |
|
Dany |
Is
she still alive? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t know. |
|
Dany |
Why
was the photograph taken at O’Reang Ov? |
|
Khvan |
Because I worked there at Sre Spey. |
|
Dany |
And
why was this picture taken? |
|
Khvan |
Because I wanted it to look at. So I asked my friend to take
the photo; I paid money to have the picture taken. |
|
Dany |
After the photo was taken, who kept it? |
|
Khvan |
I
kept it. But my friend had one, too. I sent it to my house.
And I had one more photo that was taken after I was married.
When it was taken, I was pregnant with my oldest child. My
husband brought me to have it taken. My husband brought me
to the hospital in O’Reang Ov for a check-up. Before that, I
asked him for money to have a photo taken. |
|
Dany |
When was it taken? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe 1974. |
|
Dany |
Where was it taken? |
|
Khvan |
O’Reang Ov. |
|
Dany |
Do
you remember when the picture was taken? What was the place? |
|
Khvan |
I
forgot. |
|
Dany |
How
did you go there? |
|
Khvan |
By
bicycle. At the time, my husband rode his bike there and I
sat behind him. |
|
Dany |
Why
did you want to have this photograph taken? |
|
Khvan |
I
wanted it as a souvenir. It was the only one I had. I had it
framed. I had three developed: one for my mother, one for my
mother-in-law, and one for us. |
|
Dany |
When did you leave Chrauy Changvar? |
|
Khvan |
I
left there after the Lon Nol regime collapsed. It was 1977;
I don’t know the month. |
|
Dany |
How
do you feel when you see your photo again. |
|
Khvan |
It’s normal. When we lived separately, I missed him, and so
I looked at his photo. |
|
Dany |
Do
you look at this photo often |
|
Khvan |
Yes, earlier I did. Now, I never look at it. |
|
Dany |
After the Khmer Rouge collapsed, did you look at it often? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. In 1979 or 1980, when I came back, I saw this photo at
my house. |
|
Dany |
How
did you feel when you saw the photo? |
|
Khvan |
I
felt very sad because I was waiting all the time for my
husband. When the Vietnamese were coming, I stayed with my
mother in law. I was waiting for my husband there. Because
at this time, many people were returning. But my husband
didn’t return. So I left my mother’s house and went back to
my village. After I got to my village, I continued to wait
for my husband. My neighbor said that if he were still
alive, he would come. I always missed him. At my village, I
stayed with my sister. At this time, I was eating rice mixed
with corn, but there wasn’t enough rice. I was afraid that
my brother in law would blame me if I didn’t do anything, so
I helped my sister. I worked hard.
When it was time to go to work, I left my daughter in the
care of my sister. I lived with my sister for two years.
After that, I no longer worked for them. When I worked for
others, I was able to buy a cow (my sister had another cow).
In the third year, I moved away from my sister’s house
because I had enough food to eat. The first year, I bought
two cows and a year later, I bought a bicycle. After that, I
just ate to live. |
|
Dany |
When you lost your photo and came back to your village 1980,
did you feel this photo was important for you? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, very important for me. I lost my husband but I have his
photo. |
|
Dany |
How
have you kept this photo? |
|
Khvan |
I
put it in a frame and hung it on the wall. Every morning
when I clean, I always clean the frame. |
|
Dany |
In
1972, when you took medical training, did you join the
revolution? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
Who
recruited you? |
|
Khvan |
My
cousin-in-law. |
|
Dany |
What in the Khmer Rouge regime will you never forget. |
|
Khvan |
My
work; I’ll always remember my work. They forced me to work
and meet deadlines. For example, at 1 p.m. we started to
work. If we left work at 12:45, they would criticize us.
They would have a meeting to criticize us. They would say we
were lazy, so I was very careful in my work and I did it on
time. |
|
Dany |
Is
there anything else that you’ll never forget? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, at this time, I worked in technical and political
occupations. In politics, I was the chief of the office.
They elected me at a meeting. In the ministry, they made me
a member of the Women’s Committee. But I didn’t like
politics. I didn’t care about it. When the Angkar assigned
us to have a meeting, I did not join. This was because I
liked only technical work. So I only did technical work; I
had no skill in politics. So they let me give up politics.
|
|
Dany |
At
this time, you were women’s chief? |
|
Khvan |
No.
I was a member. But just the chief of the women in the
office at the ministry. |
|
Dany |
What was the name of the place where you were chief? |
|
Khvan |
PH-2. |
|
Dany |
You
mean you were the chief of all women there? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
At
this time, did the women elect you their chief? |
|
Khvan |
Yes; they voted with ballots, and I won by a wide margin. |
|
Dany |
When did you begin to work as a chief? |
|
Khvan |
It
was at the end of 1972. But I gave up when my daughter was
born. I gave up because I didn’t agree with the office
chief. |
|
Dany |
Why
did you not agree with the chief? |
|
Khvan |
Because he didn’t like me. |
|
Dany |
Was
his name Heng? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. And later with Sovann too. |
|
Dany |
Did
you always have meetings at this time? |
|
Khvan |
I
never had meetings outside, but we had meetings in the
office. |
|
Dany |
When did you have meetings? |
|
Khvan |
In
1972. We had meetings on our experiences (when we lacked
something or did something wrong, we had to confess and
critique ourselves). Then people would suggest that we did
wrong, and we would change. |
|
Dany |
When you stayed at P-1, did you ever see any Khmer Rouge
leaders besides Ieng Thirith? |
|
Khvan |
No,
never. I never saw the office chief’s face clearly. |
|
Dany |
You
say that Ieng Thirith visited your unit. When she visited,
did anyone accompany her? |
|
Khvan |
Maybe one or two people. She never came alone. |
|
Dany |
What was the name of the chief of P-1? |
|
Khvan |
The
chief of P-1 came later. Her name was Ming. I know that
before Ming, there was a woman, but I don’t know her name. |
|
Dany |
Where did Ming come from? |
|
Khvan |
Based on my knowledge, she was Ieng Sary and Ieng Thirith’s
daughter. |
|
Dany |
Their other daughter, Neath, she was chief Chrauy Changvar? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. And Ming was the chief of P-1. Her husband worked at
Preah Ketomealea Hospital. |
|
Dany |
During this time, did you often visit home? |
|
Khvan |
Never. I did not visit after 1975. After I came from O’Reang
Ov to Chrauy Changvar, I had only visited home one time.
After I had been in Chrauy Changvar for a month, my mother
died. They told me that my mother had a serious illness and
that my brother sent a letter to me. He sent two letters.
The first was about her illness. The second said that my
mother was dead. But the Khmer Rouge kept the second letter;
they did not give it to me. When I came back to the village,
my mother was dead. After my mother died, I never visited
home again. |
|
Dany |
When did you visit home? |
|
Khvan |
In
early 1973. |
|
Dany |
Did
you see any people apprehended or tortured? |
|
Khvan |
No,
never. But I did hear about it. They caught the people and
hit them, and I heard that they made them hold heavy pails
of water on their shoulders for a long time. |
|
Dany |
You
never saw any of this yourself? |
|
Khvan |
No.
Never. But for Sovann, at this time, someone called him to
go another place. We know that had arrested him. When the
arrested him, Ieng Thirith called Phea, called a meeting.
She said that she would report to everyone about Sovann. |
|
Dany |
And
how many people spoke during the meeting? |
|
Khvan |
Those who spoke were angry with Sovann because of his abuse
of power. For example, when I was at O’Reang Ov, the chief
did not like me because his wife was the deputy chief of
women and he was the chief. But for me, my husband was a
member of the group of the committee and I was the chief of
the women. We had different ideas on how things should work.
For technical matters, I learned from the Vietnamese
teachers and understood a lot. And the head teacher had a
higher education than me. They gave us problems to solve.
And she said to me that if I solved this problem, I could do
it. And when she gave problems, I was able to solve them.
They gave me a second problem. But a man with a higher
education than me was to help me with the problem. He
couldn’t solve it, but I could. There was a third problem.
But I could not solve that one.
So,
I one day I walked to my chief’s house. I saw her discussing
me with the man who could not solve the problem. He was
asking why I, who had less education that he did, could
solve the problem. He suggested that I might have a higher
education than he did. But the chief said, “she wrote on the
biography that that she had only completed grade 7.” But,
truly I had only had training from the outside and I learned
for myself because I was interested in the subject. |
|
Dany |
You
said that your sister visited you in Sre Spey? What was her
name? |
|
Khvan |
Kim
Lyn. She was very sick. She wanted to see me and cure her.
So I asked the ministry for medicine. In 1975 when she got
better, I brought her back to my village. When I brought my
sister back and returned to my work in Sre Spey, everyone
but my husband had been moved to Chrauy Changvar.
|
|
Dany |
What year did your sister visit you? |
|
Khvan |
When the Khmer Rouge took over Phnom Penh. |
|
Dany |
So,
you brought your sister to cure her at the Suong office [Sre
Spey]? Where is this office? |
|
Khvan |
Near the office where I worked. |
|
Dany |
Before the Khmer Rouge collapsed and you road on the train,
you said you heard an explosion? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. The children who were killed were 5-6 years old. |
|
Dany |
Did
you ever see their bodies? |
|
Khvan |
No.
I was not there to see them; I was quite afraid. |
|
Dany |
How
many bodies were there? |
|
Khvan |
I
think about 3 children died and many were taken to the
hospital. There were also teenagers in the carriage.
|
|
Dany |
What do you think about the Khmer Rouge regime? |
|
Khvan |
I
think that regime was absolutely lawless. Everyone lived and
did for himself. |
|
Dany |
When the train stopped Thmar Kol station, what was your next
stop? |
|
Khvan |
We
went as far as Monkuol Borei. Then we continued by car and
slept at Bavel district hospital. After that, they made us
walk; we stopped at Kampong Chhnang village in Battembang
Province. We stopped in the middle of a field. We stayed
with the cooperative. They made a small shelter for us. I
slept there two or three nights. Then we left.
I
had my daughter in one arm and held our large bag with the
other. My daughter asked me “where is my father?“
|
|
Dany |
Which daughter said this? |
|
Khvan |
The
second; her name was Lon. I pitied her so much. Sometimes we
slept on the ground and looked up at the sky. She said that
the stars were so high. I told my daughter, “It’s so far; I
hope to see your father there.” Sometimes my daughter would
say, “mummy; I see father coming,” but when I looked, I
couldn’t see him. When I was separated from him, I missed
him every day and looked for him every day, especially when
I worked. I did both men’s and women’s work. I always
waited for him when I went to the farm. When I came back, I
dreamed that when I would come to the house, my neighbor
might say, “your husband is coming now,” but it was always a
dream. But he never came.
I
went to Semlot district and stopped at O’Reang Khen
village. I stayed there a long time. When I stayed there,
my daughter became sick with measles. She would scratch
until she drew blood. She also had blood in her stool. I was
very frightened because it was difficult to find medicine.
So I found coconut water for her to drink and she improved.
|
|
Dany |
After that, what happened? |
|
Khvan |
She
got better, so we left O’Reang Khen village by car. We
stopped at Tradak Taung village for a long time. On this
trip, there was a handicapped man named Vy. He had a
bicycle. He took care of my oldest daughter. If it weren’t
for him, I couldn’t have taken care of my children; I had
two daughters with me. Vy offered to carry my oldest
daughter on his bicycle.
One
night, I crossed Koh Kralar subdistrict and we heard someone
say that there were Vietnamese there, so we hid from the
Yuon. When we tried to run away, we lost rice, which came
out of the holes in our bags. I had only one large bag for
our clothes; I carried a hammock and mosquito net outside.
When the Vietnamese came, there was an emergency. I threw
away the bag. I screamed “Can anybody help my [younger]
daughter”? I ran and ducked and threw myself down on the
ground. I was so scared I could not stand up, but my
daughter didn’t cry. I was so scared that I pissed, but I
didn’t realize it. A group of men went running by. I asked
them to take my younger daughter and help her. So, someone
helped my daughter and me up, and we kept going. I threw
away everything.
The
next morning, the man named Vy asked me “where is your
daughter; you threw her away, why didn’t you give her to
me”? I was kidding him, and told him that the night before,
I was so tired that I just threw her away.” Vy didn’t know
that I was kidding, and he became angry. Vy gave me my
daughter and left.
I
then kept walking with both daughters. Sometimes I carried
my daughters on my shoulders and sometimes on my back. Then
we saw a man driving a buffalo. I saw that he was
handicapped. He took both of my daughters and put them on
the buffalo. But my daughters were afraid of buffaloes; they
had never seen one before. That evening, we stopped to rest.
There were many people there before I arrived. They were
eating porridge. The man named Vy invited us to eat with
him. But the porridge had no brown sugar in it. It was also
very dirty because the water was bad. Vy asked why I didn’t
give him my older daughter earlier. I confessed to him that
I was just kidding him. I had told him that I had put my
daughter in my suitcase, and Vy couldn’t see her. Vy said,
“now we are going.” He put a pack on the back of his bicycle
so that my daughter would have a comfortable ride. He was
afraid that she would fall asleep and fall off, so he put
the pack there. He also said, “don’t worry about your
daughter, I have rice for her to eat.” |
|
Dany |
Did
you have a way to go back to Pursat? |
|
Khvan |
I
didn’t know the way. I don’t know which province. |
|
Dany |
Where did you go on your last trip? |
|
Khvan |
[1969] When the Vietnamese were coming, there was brief
fighting. After the fighting, there was one soldier dead
with his guard. I was told that he died on the same day his
wife gave birth.
In
the afternoon, we came to Pursat province. Someone told me
that my husband was staying in Leach village, which was also
in Pursat.
So,
I decided that maybe the next day I would leave for Leach.
Then, Vy offered to take my 4-year old daughter because he
had a bicycle and could reach Leach village faster. I
thought that if my husband was in Leach village, he or other
people who had worked in Welfare would recognize my daughter
when she rode into town with Vy. If the people from my work
saw my daughter, they would think that I was alive, too.
That day, I could not reach Leach because the Khmer Rouge
and Vietnamese were fighting. The Vietnamese won and
announced that everyone could go back to their home
villages. I had my younger daughter with me; my oldest was
still with Vy in Leach, and so I didn’t know what to do
because I didn’t know the situation in Leach. So I decided
to go to my home.
When Vy and my daughter reached Leach that afternoon, Vy
learned that my husband had left the same morning. Thus, my
daughter was not able to see her father. HOW DOES SHE
LEARN THIS?
When I arrived in Pursat Province, someone named Nai Seng
who had worked with my unit gave us sugar and rice to eat.
After that, I left. There were a lot of people along the
road. When Nai Seng and I separated, she met with Vy. My
older daughter knew Nai Seng too. Nai Seng asked Vy to give
my daughter to her so that she could bring her to me. Vy
said that he wouldn’t give my daughter to anyone but her
mother. Nai Seng replied to Vy, “What’s wrong with you; you
are a soldier and you should give her to me in case you have
to fight.” Vy then said, “If I die, the little girl will die
with me; if I live, she will live too. I will only give her
back to her mother.”
I
then began to be suspicious; I did not know Vy’s biography.
I did not know which village he came from. I didn’t know
where he lived or what his family name was. Otherwise, I
thought he loved her like a member of his family. [skips
ahead in time] He ordered her to call him father. It was
only later that I learned he came from Trapeang Tapeou
village in Chamka Leu district in Kampong Cham province.
And
then my daughter called him “Pa.” I thought that when he
came to a village, the villagers would think that Vong Lon
was Vy’s daughter. So how could I find her? HOW DOES SHE
KNOW THIS?
According to what I learned???, when he came back to
his village, he stayed for 18 days and then he died. HOW
DID SHE FIND OUT?
By
1988, my daughter and I had been separated for 9 years. I
heard that my daughter was living in Chamka Leu. So I went
there.
After Vy died, my daughter lived with four or five other
persons. The third person she lived with was very poor. They
only had wild yams to eat with their rice. One day, the
third person told her to look after their cow. But instead,
she went to drain water from the pond and the cow ran to eat
rice in another field. The owner of the rice field hit her
and she ran away and came to Sre Veal market.
There, she met a lady named Lang who was living in Rokar
Khnor. Before, Lang had a little grocery stall in the
market. I bought things from her. One day, Lang asked me
about my story: How my husband and I became separated, how
many children I had. I didn’t want to tell her because then
everybody might cry with me. So, I told her a little bit.
When I told her, though, Lang always asked for details, and
then cried with me.
Later, Lang went to Sre Veal market and met Vong Lon on the
day she had run away. Lang asked her about where she lived,
saying that it was evening and she should go back home. Vong
Lon said “I’m not going back because those people who I live
with hit me.” So Lang said, “You should come with me.” My
daughter told her how she ran with her mother, and said,
“when we were running, my mother suddenly disappeared. She
was holding my younger sister when she disappeared, and I
was separated from her.” Lang found this very interesting
because I was also separated from my daughter. And also,
the man who took my daughter with him was also living in
Chamka Leu.
One
day, I was in the house and a neighbor who I didn’t know
came to tell me that someone had sent me a letter. The
neighbor asked whether I had been separated from my daughter
at Sre Veal. I said yes. So, I came downstairs and the
neighbor told me to go Peng Ty’s house in my village to get
it. The letter was from Lang. When I looked around, there
was a bicycle by my house. I could go there quickly on a
bicycle. My neighbor said, it’s dark; don’t go, but I went
to Peng Ty’s house anyway. I didn’t even take time to comb
my hair, so many of my neighbors asked me where I was going?
When I reached Peng Ty’s house, I saw the letter. The letter
said that there was a girl who ran away to stay at Chamka
Leu. This girl said that she lost her mother; at the time
they were separated, her mother was holding her younger
daughter. Thus, Lang suggested that I come and see if this
was really my daughter.
At
this time, I was making Khmer noodles and sold them. I
stopped making them and went to see my daughter. I also went
to the district hall to ask the chief permission to leave
the district. After I received permission, I asked my
brother to accompany me to Sre Veal. |
|
Dany |
When was this? |
|
Khvan |
May
1988. I had been separated from my daughter for 9 years.
When my brother and I reached Sre Veal market, the
villagers said my daughter was not living in Trapeang La-Poeu.
She moved to Cheyor subdistrict. So I went there. When I
arrived, there was a meeting being held. I knelt before the
people at the meeting and asked if I could ask a question. I
told them that I wanted to find my daughter. The people sent
me to the Women’s Association house.
When I reached the house, the women said that my daughter
had gone to Speu to pick beans. Then they told me that I
should go to Speu to see her. So the next morning I went to
Speu. It took two hours to reach that place.
When I came to Speu subdistrict, the villagers told me that
my daughter had gone to pick beans at the field. So, I asked
the Women’s Association to take me there, but they wouldn’t
agree to help me. They said they had no free time to
accompany me. I told them that my daughter had scars on her
arm and thigh. I also told them that she had a small face, a
sharp chin, and smooth hair. When I said this, they told me
that I should wait until evening when my daughter came back.
But
I was afraid that if I waited, they might bring a different
girl to me. So I asked a boy who was taking care of some
buffalos to accompany me. I told him that I would pay him.
The boy agreed, but the women said that he shouldn’t go with
me because he didn’t know the field where my daughter was
working. But the boy took me anyway.
When we reached the field, I saw many teenagers working
there. But I didn’t see my daughter. She was sick that day
and not working. She was sitting, resting. So the people
working there told her to stand up. I saw her at a distance
of 10 meters. When I saw her, I knew she was truly my
daughter. She was ugly now. Her skin, which had been light,
had become dark. I also wondered why she was so small
compared to others of her age.
My
daughter was afraid to look at me. I told her “Do not be
afraid. I just want to see your arm.” I did this because I
remembered that she had a scar. I couldn’t remember which
arm, though. When I touched her hand, I saw the scar. I then
asked her where the scar was on her thigh. My daughter bowed
to me and pulled her skirt up to show me. Then I knew she
was really my daughter. Then I hugged her and cried. All
the other women also cried. Then I let go of her.
My
daughter said that when we were separated, you were holding
my younger sister and I was riding a buffalo. Then someone
put me on a bicycle. But now he is dead.
I
told her that I knew she was my daughter. I have come here
to bring you back home.
But
my daughter said she didn’t want to go. So, I explained to
her that “I was really her mother. If you were not my
daughter, I wouldn’t ask you to come home with me. I’m not
lying to you.” But my daughter said she wanted to stay with
the Women’s Association in Cheyor; she didn’t want to come
with me. When she said this, I screamed and cried loudly. I
told her that we had been separated for 9 years. What is
your life like? Is it difficult for you to live? So, I
wanted to stay with her and not return to my home. I told
her that I wanted to stay with her until I died. I told her
I would leave my younger daughter in my village so that I
could stay with her if my older daughter wouldn’t go with
me.
When I said this, my older daughter said she wanted to ask
the Women’s Association what to do. I told my daughter that
when someone asked her how she knew me, tell them that you
know me because I have a mole on my neck. I showed her the
mole.
When we came back from the field, the Women’s Association
said that “a thief wants to steal a buffalo and already
knows the buffalo’s scars.” They were implying that I was
trying to steal my daughter. I replied that “I just came to
this village; I have never been here before. I couldn’t have
known who my daughter was. I have shown you the evidence
[the scars].”
When I told them this, the women told me to go to the
district hall and tell my story to the chief. I agreed to do
this. When I left the Women’s Association, I came to the
Women’s Association house in Cheyor. A lady who was coming
to this house told me that she knew another woman who knew
the people who brought my daughter to Cheyor district after
Vy died. So we went to see this woman, but could not find
her.
When I brought my daughter to the district office, that
woman also came. She asked me whether I could tell her about
the man who brought my daughter to Cheyor. I really didn’t
know, so I guessed that the people who brought her there was
a physically large man; he was tall and that his skin was on
the dark side. I said that his hair was wavy, and that his
legs were good, but that he walked with a limp because his
knee had been broken.
The
woman told me that I was not right. She told me that he
didn’t have a limp; his legs were good. They also said that
Lon had a mother, but that she had died in the hospital. So,
I told her about my daughter’s characteristics. If you don’t
believe me, just check her scars.
At
this time, my daughter was taking a bath at the well behind
the house. While she was bathing, a woman told her that I
wasn’t really her mother. “Your mother is dead,” she said.
“When your mother brought you to this village, she dropped
you from a bridge. She wanted to sell you.” My daughter told
me this later.
My
brother then found the village chief to ask permission to go
see the district chief. Then a woman from the Women’s
Association came. She told me that she loved my daughter
very much. She said that if I took her away, it would break
her heart. I told her that she was not Lon’s mother; I was.
I loved her more. “For example, if you were separated from
your daughter for nine years, when you see her, what is in
your heart? I have been thinking about her all this time.
She is really my daughter and I have enough food for her, so
I would like to bring her back to my home. If she were not
my daughter, I would let her see her mother.”
The
woman didn’t reply, but she did ride away on her bicycle.
When we saw the district chief to get permission, he said
that we should compensate the Women’s Association for taking
my daughter away. So, I paid the Women’s Association 1,500
riel. My brother had 1,000 riel, and told me I could take
it. But because I didn’t have the other 500 riel, they
wouldn’t agree to let me take her. The district chief
suggested that I go back to Rokar Khnor village and have my
village chief write them for permission. So, I decided to
pay the 1,500 riel. I needed someone from my village to
bring the other 500 riel. But the people were afraid; no one
wanted to go. I said I would guarantee the safety of the
people traveling. I said I would pay for them to go.
They stopped the meeting then, and the people talked with
each other in private. But I went close to them so I could
listen. I heard them say that I should pay 500 riel to each
person at the meeting and give the Women’s Association
1,500. I agreed to do this if they would sign a permission
letter for me. So, I brought my daughter back to my village.
We stayed at Lang’s house on the way. We slept under a
mosquito net. My daughter asked me why I prepared a mosquito
net. I said to protect us from the mosquitoes. My daughter
replied that she always made a fire to keep them away; she
never used a net.
When we came to my village, many people visited us over a
period of 18 days. Lon stayed with me for seven years, then
she died. |
|
Dany |
How
did she die? |
|
Khvan |
Of
illness. She died of epilepsy. On the day she died, I was
not at home. I was working. It was raining. If it hadn’t
been raining, I would have been working with my daughter in
the fields. My daughter stayed at home that day because of
the rains. When I was working in the fields, my sister came
and told me something was wrong with Lon. |
|
Dany |
How
old was Lon? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t know. I think maybe 19. She was born in 1975.
|
|
Dany |
Do
you want to tell your story to your daughters? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. |
|
Dany |
What do you want to tell them? |
|
Khvan |
I
worked so hard. |
|
Dany |
Have you shown your daughters your photo and told your story
to them? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, I just let them look normally; they were too young to
understand. They said that they didn’t miss their father.
But some of my neighbors told them that they didn’t have a
father, only a mother. When the people said this, I was very
angry. When I talked about my husband, they didn’t want to
listen. When I asked them if they missed their father, they
said that they only saw me when they were growing up. They
said they had memories of me, but not their father. I was
relieved that they never asked me about their father. I
didn’t have to tell them how their father died.
When one of my children was small, she dreamed that she saw
her father. I asked her how she knew it was her father? She
said, you are always telling me about my father, so I saw
him rocking me and kissing me. I could not reply to her. I
just told her about her father.
There is a saying, “the father has a four-fold noble nature:
pity, sincerity, compassion, and joy.” I told them that when
they were growing up, they had no father, but he loved you
very much. The youngest daughter was three months old when
she was separated from her father. “We still don’t know
whether your father is dead or alive.” I told her that her
father had a four-fold noble nature to her. He loved her,
rocked her, and kissed her. After I said this, my daughter
saw me trimming bamboo and she said that if my father were
still alive, you wouldn’t have to be doing that work. I
replied to my daughter that I must do it so we would have
enough to eat. My daughter cried then. She said that she had
no father to call like other girls. |
|
Dany |
Which daughter was this? |
|
Khvan |
The
youngest. |
|
Dany |
When you tell the story of your husband’s photo, is it
important for you? |
|
Khvan |
Yes. It is important for my daughters. She hasn’t seen him
since she was three months old, so it is important for her
to look. |
|
Dany |
What do you need to relieve your suffering after your
husband’s loss? |
|
Khvan |
I
don’t know. But I heard they will hold a tribunal to
sentence the Khmer Rouge leaders, and I want to have this
tribunal because I need justice for my husband and daughters
and other relatives who are missing. If they are not
sentenced, they may commit crimes again. So, there should be
a tribunal. There should be a law to prosecute them.
|
|
Dany |
I
want to ask about your siblings. |
|
Khvan |
The
oldest was Khvan Kdaing (male). He died in 1982 or 1983. |
|
Dany |
What about the second? |
|
Khvan |
The
second was Khvan Mao (male). He was a monk since he was
small. But the Khmer Rouge forced him to leave the monkhood.
After the regime collapsed, he returned to the pagoda. |
|
Dany |
When was he a monk? |
|
Khvan |
Since before he was young. He left the monkhood for 9 days,
but then he went back again. He lives at Rokar Khnor
pagoda. |
|
Dany |
What about the third? |
|
Khvan |
That was me. |
|
Dany |
And
the fourth? |
|
Khvan |
The
fourth was Khvan Kim Song (male) |
|
Dany |
Today, where is he living? |
|
Khvan |
He
lives in Chhouk village in Chrauch Chhmar subdistrict. |
|
Dany |
What about the fifth. |
|
Khvan |
Her
name is Khvan Kin Lyn (female). She is still alive. She
lives at Rokar Khnor subdistrict. |
|
Dany |
How
do your feel when I ask you about the Khmer Rouge regime? |
|
Khvan |
I
am happy to tell you. I want everyone to know my story and
put it down in history. It will hurt the young generation to
read my story. I haven’t told you all the details. If I tell
you, you will cry with me. |
|
Dany |
Do
you think that your husband might still be alive? |
|
Khvan |
In
my mind, I think there is a 10-20% chance that he is still
alive. |
|
Dany |
Do
you still miss him? |
|
Khvan |
If
we compare my story, it is like a movie. I always remember
what my husband told me: “My whole life, I’m lucky to have
you as my wife. If I lose you, I will not marry again.” I
asked him if he thought I was a good wife. Do you like me? I
was just kidding him. If you lose me, you should take a new
wife. She will be better than me. He said, “I will never
take another wife.” I told him that if he lost me and
married again, I wouldn’t be angry. |
|
Dany |
Have you ever had any information about him? |
|
Khvan |
Never. But someone told me that he is dead. When I went to
the fortune teller, they always tell me he is still alive.
|
|
Dany |
Have you been to your husband’s village since the Khmer
Rouge? |
|
Khvan |
Yes, I have been there, but I never heard anything. If he
were still alive, he would have missed his mother and come
to visit her. |
|
Dany |
Do
you have anything else to say? |
|
Khvan |
Nothing. But I have a story. I ran, I worked, I farmed.
Sometimes when I was at home, my daughter cried and the
ghosts always cried too. Sometimes the boat sinks twice. If
I die, who will take care of my daughter? She will sleep on
the boat in the middle of the river. I wish what happened to
me will not happen to other women. |
